Senate approves delaying digital switch

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by gplasky

OTA analog channels stop broadcasting. Gandma's antenna is older than she is. She may need a new antenna to go with the Digital settop box she has to purchase if she doesn't want cable or satellite.

Gerry

Originally Posted by Opus4

But, why do you say she would need a new antenna? The existing antenna for VHF & UHF should work fine.

If someone bought a UHF-only antenna, they might have a problem if their digital station returns to the VHF range where the analog channel that stops broadcasting was located, but that would probably have been a newer antenna.

Example: right now, digital ABC in my area is channel 45, but should be 'returning' to 7 after the analog channel on 7 is shut off.

Now, if she wants a shiny new antenna...

- Andy

Originally Posted by MeInMaui

If you give a Grandma digital broadcast TV, she's going to want a converter box to go with it.
If you give her a converter box, then she'll probably want a new antenna too.
Once she's done putting up the antenna, she'll need to warm up. So...

Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj

That's what gets me about this whole situation. The head FCC guy came to my town about a month ago for an open forum for people with questions. It got nasty - people screaming at him - but most of them (that the local news showed) were clueless. A lot of these people who are arguing for pushing the deadline are arguing about antenna replacement as much as getting the converter boxes ("we shouldn't have to buy a new antenna!"). They don't seem to understand that "an antenna is an antenna", and there is no such thing as a "digital antenna" or an "analog antenna".

Of course, the antenna companies will get as close as they can to saying "you NEED a new antenna for the switch" without ACTUALLY saying it... intentionally leading to confusion, hopefully leading to sales.

If people have been watching OTA for years, odds are they have a VHF and UHF antenna (combo, or two separate, or whatever). And if their signal was clear enough to tolerate, then they are likely going to get perfect digital reception. I think there will be a surprising amount of "WOWs" coming, especially from the Grandmas, when they see just how clear the picture CAN be, compared to the snowy mess they have been watching for ages.

Originally Posted by sandor

1) i have been using my 35 year old roof top antenna with DTV/ATSC for the past 3 years in Philadelphia. There is no reason to change antennas.

2) All televisions over 32? inches have been mandated to include a DTV/ATSC tuner for the past 2+ years. This means you dont need a converter box.

3) The coupon is ONLY good for a converter box (ATSC downgraded to NTSC) So my HDHRs and A180s were not eligible. The coupon is ONLY good for Digital to Analog conversion boxes and specifically disallows "upgrades"



There is no reason to delay the Feb 17th switch, it needs to happen, and the < 10% (most likely less than 5% given the redemption rates) of the population who have issues can deal with it afterwards.

There was NO REASON to wait until the last minute, as affiliates in all major media markets have been simulcasting in DTV/ATSC for at least the past year, and most the past 3+.

Yeah-that's was kinda my point. Grandma's not so Internet-savy that she's going to find the right information. Grandma listens to the TV commercials and her senior citzen friends who are just about as misinformed. And then to top it all Grandma goes down to the local gadget store and what do you think the salesman is going to sell her along with that digital TV box? That's right-a shiny new "digital" antenna that's going to work way better than any old antenna on her roof. And that's the soft sell. The hard sell is to tell her to forget the box and just get yourself that new high definition TV that he knows she wants. But wait-to get the best picture don't forget to pick up that new shiny "digital" antenna. Have I got a deal for you! And with a very small installation fee we'll have it up before SuperBowl. C'mon Mrs. Grandma-you HAVE to see the SuperBowl in hi def! What's that-you never watched the SuperBowl? Well that's because you never had a hi-def TV with a shiny new "digital" antenna.

It's a shame.

I already took care of the relatives and in-laws that were confused and didn't know what to get, what worked, what won't. Even the ones that had cable were about to freak out. But I'm glad to see the delay isn't quite holding up yet. Every one waits until the last minute. I got a coupon and a digital box for the cabin up North almost 8 months ago. Might need it-might not. But better to have it.

Gerry

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by gplasky

Yeah-that's was kinda my point. Grandma's not so Internet-savy that she's going to find the right information.

I was wondering whether that was what you meant, but wasn't sure. I tried to be far-fetched about not being able to use my HDTV until the switchover occurs... but I'm guessing that is a real question somewhere.

I'm not trying to make fun of someone who doesn't know the full story -- if people don't know, they need to ask questions like any other new subject, and hopefully they end up asking someone who will give them the truth. (I had to look up antenna info because I knew nothing about the then-unused antenna on our roof.)

Every one waits until the last minute.

... and if the switch date gets delayed, people will wait until then & still won't be ready.

- Andy

[MeInMaui]

Originally Posted by Opus4

... and if the switch date gets delayed, people will wait until then & still won't be ready.

Yup, nothing like their analog broadcast signals switching to DTV nightlights to get people off of their couches to do something about it.

[TallMomof2]

Bad Reporter's take

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by TallMomof2

Bad Reporter's take

That reminds me... doesn't anyone else think the analog SD broadcast video quality was better? The SD video had a soft smoothness that the newer HD digital video just can't match, with its harsh edges and abrupt tonal changes. And, where the old analog SD broadcast would gracefully fade into a beautiful snowy landscape and keep your eye muscles in shape with vertical movement exercises, the new video practically chirps at you with piercing square blobs of psychedelic colors and at times seems hesitant to move forward to a new image.

- Andy

[Menehune]

Don't get me started...Before Thanksgiving audio levels and picture was consistently "OK" on the cable channels and affiliates. Since the new year, most audio levels aren't even normalized anymore. TV commercials are +20db above program levels, some stations can't even keep a stable picture during their live news shows anymore. They made the backbone digital and made overall PQ worse due to compressing the heck out of everything.

That reminds me-I need to climb onto the roof to hook up my shiny new antenna to check out the OTA signals

[thomaszoo]

If "pro" is the opposite of "con", what is the opposite of progress?

Wayne

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by thomaszoo

If "pro" is the opposite of "con", what is the opposite of progress?

Regress, retrograde or retrogress.

[Opus4]

It appears they've voted again:

Congress postpones digital TV transition to June

Rabbit ears get reprieve with digital TV delay

- Andy

[Ryokurin]

And just like I said earlier most are going to switch anyways. I've read that at least 65% of stations are sticking with the 17th. No one wants to pay to keep analog going.

[sandor]

i hate politicians.

[webwalker]

I think the thing that is most instructive to me about this cock-up is
how politics really works when it is 'fair'. 'Fair' doesn't mean that
everyone benefits. It means that everyone is hurt equally. And there
is something in the subtext of that which I find resists analysis.

[scott2020]

http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing_room/dtv_delay_act/

I read on another forum that President Obama won't sign until he reviews (or whoever reviews it for him) public comments about it.

I don't know if this link was posted elsewhere so I apologize if so. I haven't seen it here, but I figure with as many TV geeks as there are here, it might be worth it!

[davephan]

Changing the DTV switch to June 12th was a smart idea. To make the change in the middle of winter is simply stupid. There are situations where people will need to replace there roof top antennas. Examples of this situation is where people still have VHF only antennas on their roof and only watch the VHF channels. Replacing a rooftop antenna is much easier in the summer than the winter for regions of the county that have a lot of snow and ice on the roof in the middle of the winter season. People that live in warmer states have to remember that the winter weather is not the same in the northern states.

The coupon program was very poorly run with a very short expiration date. When the coupons expired, then new coupons would be issued if two coupons per household had expired and there wasn't enough money in the program from the beginning either.

The calendar date is arbitrary selection, and should never have been selected to occur in the middle of winter. Delaying the change does not hurt anyone that already made the change. I doubt if it hurts the over the air broadcasters either since they have been making a huge return on investment for years. There shouldn't be any reason to complain about the delay.


Dave

[scott2020]

Originally Posted by davephan

Changing the DTV switch to June 12th was a smart idea. To make the change in the middle of winter is simply stupid. There are situations where people will need to replace there roof top antennas. Examples of this situation is where people still have VHF only antennas on their roof and only watch the VHF channels. Replacing a rooftop antenna is much easier in the summer than the winter for regions of the county that have a lot of snow and ice on the roof in the middle of the winter season.

Of course, people had what, two or three summers to get their equipment squared away? I personally did mine in April of last year. The media blitz has been in full force for over a year, covering all seasons. There is no excuse for waiting this long.

Originally Posted by davephan

The coupon program was very poorly run with a very short expiration date. When the coupons expired, then new coupons would be issued if two coupons per household had expired and there wasn't enough money in the program from the beginning either.

Part of the reason the program ran out of money is because people who don't need coupons got them "just in case". I know many cable and satellite subscribers who got a coupon and ordered a box, and it sits in the closet because they don't need it. The coupon program was a stupid plan all together. The manufacturers should have set an inexpensive price most, if not all, could afford and let people be responsible for getting their own equipment if they want it. Also, if the government did a better job of simply saying "no" if you have cable or satellite, the program would not have run out of money.

90 days is more than enough time to get a box. Procrastinating and letting your coupons sit in your mail pile is the person's own fault.

Originally Posted by davephan

The calendar date is arbitrary selection, and should never have been selected to occur in the middle of winter. Delaying the change does not hurt anyone that already made the change. I doubt if it hurts the over the air broadcasters either since they have been making a huge return on investment for years. There shouldn't be any reason to complain about the delay.
Dave

Nothing could be farther from the truth for many markets. As mentioned before, it costs $5000 to $7000 a month just in electricity to run the extra transmitter for analog. Many stations are not making the kind of money you think they are.

[pjpjpjpj]

Originally Posted by Opus4

Rabbit ears get reprieve with digital TV delay

I didn't even read the article linked, but this headline is EXACTLY the kind of misinformation out there. Why would rabbit ears NOT work after the digital switch? This headline clearly implies that "rabbit ears" will be worthless after the switch, which is completely and utterly wrong.

I completely agree with Scott's comments above. People have had plenty of time to get their boxes. The explanations have been available, and were even more easily-understandable a while ago before the deadline drew near and the antenna companies started mucking things up by implying that your old antenna won't work. The coupons were made available to everyone (which was stupid), so a lot were bought up by people with cable/sat who had no idea, or else wanted to "be safe". Now, over a year of advertising will be flushed down the toilet (I think I saw the number $22M?).

Anyone want to bet that the switch doesn't happen until AT LEAST 2010?

[sandor]

Originally Posted by davephan

The coupon program was very poorly run with a very short expiration date. When the coupons expired, then new coupons would be issued if two coupons per household had expired and there wasn't enough money in the program from the beginning either.
Dave

Dave I'll quote myself:

Originally Posted by sandor

It looks like the House disagrees with the Senate. Personally, i
think it should just happen rather than cause even more confusion for
20+ million who already redeemed their coupons.

https://www.dtv2009.gov/Stats.aspx

interestingly enough, it looks like there *is* enough funding,
considering the 53% redemption rate, but the 90 day expiration period
of the unused coupons is the issue. (in other words, if 47% of the 11
million active coupons are not redeemed, that is more than enough to
cover the 2.5 million on the waiting list. It seems Americans are
just good at waiting until the last minute!

if people didn't wait until the last minute, they would be fine. it is a small percentage of people that haven't changed to ATSC over the past 3 years, and those people will still just wait until the final deadling in june or whenever


the beauty of ATSC is that my 30+ year old antenna on the roof works perfectly, and there is a very very small percentage of people that would need to change antenna, and those people who would have selected a single band antenna in the first place are probably more technically astute, and have already switched to digital broadcast when it first came on line.

[Ryokurin]

The new problem is the lack of converters. Most companies stopped making the device last month, as obviously they thought that they will soon become worthless and no one wants to sit on millions of unsellable units. Even if they started the lines back up again its going to take several weeks for them to get to stores, so its going to be a perpetual shortage probably until June.

http://i.gizmodo.com/5148354/new-dtv...r-box-shortage

[thomaszoo]

Originally Posted by Ryokurin

The new problem is the lack of converters. Most companies stopped making the device last month, as obviously they thought that they will soon become worthless and no one wants to sit on millions of unsellable units. Even if they started the lines back up again its going to take several weeks for them to get to stores, so its going to be a perpetual shortage probably until June.

http://i.gizmodo.com/5148354/new-dtv...r-box-shortage

I was in Circuit City a couple of days ago and they had HUGE stacks of converter boxes. And this is in an area where there is supposedly a large % of people who are unprepared.

What is so important on TV that those who are unprepared couldn't live without it. They still have their radios...

Wayne

[pjpjpjpj]

Originally Posted by thomaszoo

I was in Circuit City a couple of days ago and they had HUGE stacks of converter boxes. And this is in an area where there is supposedly a large % of people who are unprepared.

If and when the government finally decides to let the deadline arrive (as I posted above, I think they'll keep moving it), I would expect massive lines and headaches at all consumer electronics stores (and other places that carry the boxes) on the day before the switch. That's just how people are. Why else would the malls be slammed on Christmas Eve every year, ya know? Procrastination is the American way (and if that doesn't work, then complaining is)

As I have heard many people say, the people that need the boxes, will get the boxes. It might be last minute, and it almost certainly will be with their own money (not with a coupon)... but they'll get them.