Tutorial: SageTV on WHS with 64K clusters in the drive pool...

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

Yeah I think I was forgetting the "remove" part of it. I figured since it showed nothing on them and duplication was turned off I was good to go without the remove part.

Yeah, you have to follow the tutorial or it can break things, as you found out. Sometimes shortcuts can bite you.

Another question when is the best time to convert d to 64k?

Before adding data to the pool or making client backups, so as soon as possible. "When" is less critical if using the "convert method" since it's non-destructive.

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by S_M_E

Yeah, you have to follow the tutorial or it can break things, as you found out. Sometimes shortcuts can bite you.


Before adding data to the pool or making client backups, so as soon as possible. "When" is less critical if using the "convert method" since it's non-destructive.

Yeah but when it is late you try shortcuts sometimes and when you are newer to this whole WHS to begin with

[S_M_E]

I have nothing against people trying shortcuts, sometimes they work, saving some time, but sometimes they backfire and it ends up taking longer or being more work than it would have been without it.

Let us know if the next 64K attempt works better for you...

[toony]

Is it just me or is WHS a really temperamental OS... Fine if you leave it alone, but one little thing and it starts to cry.

Don't get me wrong I love it but man can it be sensitive.

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by toony

Is it just me or is WHS a really temperamental OS... Fine if you leave it alone, but one little thing and it starts to cry.

Don't get me wrong I love it but man can it be sensitive.

I don't find it that temperamental and I have a lot of "unsupported" tweaks and workarounds applied.

What exactly were you doing when it had a problem? Some things WHS just doesn't like and some things will literally break it.

[toony]

Originally Posted by S_M_E

I don't find it that temperamental and I have a lot of "unsupported" tweaks and workarounds applied.

What exactly were you doing when it had a problem? Some things WHS just doesn't like and some things will literally break it.

I have just been finding that something I have done with XP in the past hs not bothered it while the same things I have been doing with WHS have given me some odd errors. Such as installing tuner cards. I have had some hardware issues which I am dealing with mobo tech support, but just driver install and cleaning them up, copying data from one drive to the other, seems to just stop at some random point with no explanation given, simply decides no longer to allow workstations to connect to the shares through the WHS connector, even though shares are set up with permissions...

Kind of like a ghost in the machine (someone said that here yesterday) .

I'm not being very specific here as I am working them all out, but I do find I have to handle with kid gloves.

[Beefcake550]

toony....what kind of hard drives do you have? I noticed you have 1T and 1.5T drives. Are they by chance Seagate? If so, you may need to update the firmware on them.

Also, even if they aren't Seagate, how are they configured in the BIOS? AHCI, SATA, or IDE??? For WHS, I have found that IDE (even though they are SATA drives) is the only way I didn't have issues in WHS. In Vista, I had no issues either way.

Just some thoughts for you.....

[toony]

Originally Posted by Beefcake550

toony....what kind of hard drives do you have? I noticed you have 1T and 1.5T drives. Are they by chance Seagate? If so, you may need to update the firmware on them.

Also, even if they aren't Seagate, how are they configured in the BIOS? AHCI, SATA, or IDE??? For WHS, I have found that IDE (even though they are SATA drives) is the only way I didn't have issues in WHS. In Vista, I had no issues either way.

Just some thoughts for you.....

I have
1 x 250 gb sata WD ->main C: and start of D: for some reason I thought it was 500gb... it's not
3 x 1tb sata Seagate -> pool
1 x 1.5 sata Seagate -> will be in the pool later today.

I will be adding 2 x 1.5tb sata (or 2tb $ depending) later today

I will check on the firmware of the drives, I never even thought about that to be honest.

EDIT - I just got the drivers for Seagate... Are you sure this is safe? Page after page of warnings... little nervous here.

[PLUCKYHD]

Okay SME a quick update.

AFter following the directions (no late night short cuts) all went well.

I got the original 5 1.5tb convert all was well so today I added my other 7 1.5tb drives and everything is great. I still have the d: @ 4k clusters as I haven't decided wether I want to mess with it at all.

Thanks for the great help in this and already things seem to run smoother at 64k

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by toony

I have just been finding that something I have done with XP in the past hs not bothered it while the same things I have been doing with WHS have given me some odd errors.

I'm not being very specific here as I am working them all out, but I do find I have to handle with kid gloves.

WHS is different but I've just not found it to be very sensitive. Sure, there are oddities, like those caused by the drive extender technology, but you do things the "WHS way" (as much as possible) I've found it quite stable.

It's harder to help without some specifics but as long as you're figuring it all out that's all that matters.

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

I still have the d: @ 4k clusters as I haven't decided wether I want to mess with it at all.

I recommend converting but it's certainly optional.

[PLUCKYHD]

Okay trying to convert d to 64 k I have parted magic running I can see format options but no convert?

[S_M_E]

Parted magic may not offer that option, Acronis does. You may have to look at other products if you're looking for a freeware solution...

[PLUCKYHD]

OKay downloading partition magic now it is only $70 and a free try will give it a whirl

[S_M_E]

I'm not sure Partition Magic will work on WHS but you can try...

[PLUCKYHD]

no still looking. i may just do the "hard" way and take the drive out put it in another computer and a image copy back with partition magic.

[S_M_E]

Search majorgeek for other freeware utilities too..

[rmac321]

Originally Posted by Beefcake550

For WHS, I have found that IDE (even though they are SATA drives) is the only way I didn't have issues in WHS.

I've run across similar comments in other threads. Why would a SATA drive work better with a bios setting of IDE? How does this affect drive performance? Are most people running as SATA or is this a common change?

[rmac321]

Originally Posted by S_M_E

I recommend converting but it's certainly optional.

S_M_E - Can you help me understand the 64k D:\ situation? If I understand correctly, WHS with Power Pack 1 and 3 or more drives no longer writes directly to the Primary Partition (unless the secondary is full). Do you recommend converting D:\ as a precaution, just in case everything else gets so full that the D:\ drive gets used by Sage?

I can't help but think that with the amount of files Plucky could potentially have with all those 1.5TB drives, all those tombstones taking 64KB each is a lot of file space used. Am I just being too conservative?

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by rmac321

I've run across similar comments in other threads. Why would a SATA drive work better with a bios setting of IDE? How does this affect drive performance? Are most people running as SATA or is this a common change?

Because you don't need SATA drivers generally, WHS will recognize and use built-in drivers. I've noticed no performance problems based on that setting. I'm not even sure if a benchmark would see a difference. I can't say what most people are doing, for sure, but the IDE/BIOS thing is pretty well known, even since the betas, so I'd imagine most are. I've never checked the HP MediaSmart BIOS to see what they do but I'm guessing IDE mode there too.

Originally Posted by rmac321

S_M_E - Can you help me understand the 64k D:\ situation? If I understand correctly, WHS with Power Pack 1 and 3 or more drives no longer writes directly to the Primary Partition (unless the secondary is full). Do you recommend converting D:\ as a precaution, just in case everything else gets so full that the D:\ drive gets used by Sage?

I can't help but think that with the amount of files Plucky could potentially have with all those 1.5TB drives, all those tombstones taking 64KB each is a lot of file space used. Am I just being too conservative?

Since the D partition is not a landing zone anymore WHS is more willing to store files there and a lot of people wait until WHS is almost full before adding more space.

That is the trade off to performance insurance. It's why I used to recommend leaving the D partition at 4k but since drives are cheap, it's better to waste a few gigs, knowing that if WHS puts media on the D partition that you won't take a performance hit.

If you *really* don't want to use 64K for the D partition then:
1) Always make sure that you have enough free space
2) Run beefcake's tool once in a while to make sure D is clear.

I just find it's easier to convert D to 64K and not have to worry about it anymore. If you built WHS with the smallest system drive possible it's more of a problem than if you used a larger drive. Even if the 64K clusters wasted 200G for tombstones, if you have a large enough system drive it wont hurt anything. It would take 3,355,443,200 tombstones to use up 200G assuming 64K wasted on each one. Like I said, personally, I'd suggest 64K clusters for the D partition.

[rmac321]

Originally Posted by S_M_E

Because you don't need SATA drivers generally, WHS will recognize and use built-in drivers. I've noticed no performance problems based on that setting. I'm not even sure if a benchmark would see a difference. I can't say what most people are doing, for sure, but the IDE/BIOS thing is pretty well known, even since the betas, so I'd imagine most are. I've never checked the HP MediaSmart BIOS to see what they do but I'm guessing IDE mode there too.

Thanks. Hopefully I'll be loading WHS this week, so I'll keep this in mind.

Originally Posted by S_M_E

That is the trade off to performance insurance. It's why I used to recommend leaving the D partition at 4k but since drives are cheap, it's better to waste a few gigs, knowing that if WHS puts media on the D partition that you won't take a performance hit.

If you *really* don't want to use 64K for the D partition then:
1) Always make sure that you have enough free space
2) Run beefcake's tool once in a while to make sure D is clear.

I just find it's easier to convert D to 64K and not have to worry about it anymore. If you built WHS with the smallest system drive possible it's more of a problem than if you used a larger drive. Even if the 64K clusters wasted 200G for tombstones, if you have a large enough system drive it wont hurt anything. It would take 3,355,443,200 tombstones to use up 200G assuming 64K wasted on each one. Like I said, personally, I'd suggest 64K clusters for the D partition.

Good points. I don't do computer math very often, so correct me if I'm wrong on this. I think you're off by 1K, but even at 3 million (instead of billion) tombstones, that's a lot of files, so your point is well taken. It would certainly be a lot more PITA to change to 64K after all the drives are loaded with files.