Tutorial: SageTV on WHS with 64K clusters in the drive pool...

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by Peter_h

Well I want to reinstall WHS but I would like to keep the data on the pool so I assume that is a reinstall?

Yes, that's a "server reinstall" and I wouldn't suggest resizing the C partition with that kind of install. The only reliable way that I've found so far is during a "new install." You could remove the drives from the pool, do a new install (resize C) and then move the drives and data back but depending on how many drives you have, how big and how full, that could be a PITA. I guess it depends on how bad you want/need to stretch C.

[Peter_h]

Originally Posted by S_M_E

Yes, that's a "server reinstall" and I wouldn't suggest resizing the C partition with that kind of install. The only reliable way that I've found so far is during a "new install." You could remove the drives from the pool, do a new install (resize C) and then move the drives and data back but depending on how many drives you have, how big and how full, that could be a PITA. I guess it depends on how bad you want/need to stretch C.

If I were to go the latter route, what would that entail?

Looking at the "Server Storage" tabe in console, I am showing:

Shared folders 29% (1.2TB)
Duplication 25% (1TB)
PC backups 1.78% (70GB)
System 2.36% (91GB)
Free Space 40% (1.6TB)

Total space 3.86 TB

So it looks like if I turned duplication off, I would have a little under 1 1/2 TB to transfer. I have 4 TB drives in the pool.

So I guess,

1.) move everthing into the pool onto two drives.
2.) Fresh WHS install
3.) During install, stretch C: partition, format D: to 64k clusters
4.) install sage etc.
5.) add the two empty drives to the pool, format to 64k cluster
6.) connect one of the pool drive via usb enclorsure and transfer all data.
7.) add that drive
8.) repeat 4 and 5 for the next drive.

Is there an easier way to do this?

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by Peter_h

So I guess,

1.) move everthing into the pool onto two drives.
2.) Fresh WHS install
3.) During install, stretch C: partition, format D: to 64k clusters
4.) install sage etc.
5.) add the two empty drives to the pool, format to 64k cluster
6.) connect one of the pool drive via usb enclorsure and transfer all data.
7.) add that drive
8.) repeat 4 and 5 for the next drive.

Is there an easier way to do this?

01) Turn off duplication
02) Remove 2 drives from the pool (one at a time, waiting for migration after each) but leave them attached
03) Run beefcake's Drive Balancer tool to make sure landing zone (D) is clear
04) Shut down power and then disconnect the two remaining pooled drives
05) Fresh WHS install (stretching C) and the Disk Management add-in
06) MS patches and updates
07) Format the attached pool drives to 64K
08) Convert the D partition to 64K
09) Reattach the drives with data on them (don't add them to the pool)
10) Move data to the pool
11) Add the drives (one at a time, formatting to 64K clusters)
12) Turn on duplication where desired
13) Install and configure Sage and other SW

That's how I'd do it...

[Peter_h]

Thanks.

Your way has formatting D: after everything is up and running.

I have a few different peices of software I will be trying to reformat D: to 64k bloxk so hopefully, I can add to the thread.

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by Peter_h

Thanks.

Your way has formatting D: after everything is up and running.

I have a few different peices of software I will be trying to reformat D: to 64k bloxk so hopefully, I can add to the thread.

Yes, as far a I know that's the only time you can convert or format D. C can be stretched/formatted during install but D is made after that. If you want you could convert ( I prefer not to use the format method for D) the D partition after installing WHS and before patching/updating. If something were to go wrong (doubtful), it might save time. That would move 08 to after 05.

I prefer to call it converting D because the "format method" is destructive and the "convert method" is not but if you find other SW that converts, by all means, share with us and I'll edit the tutorial and give you credit for testing so others will know what works too...

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by S_M_E

Yes, as far a I know that's the only time you can convert or format D. C can be stretched/formatted during install but D is made after that. If you want you could convert ( I prefer not to use the format method for D) the D partition after installing WHS and before patching/updating. If something were to go wrong (doubtful), it might save time. That would move 08 to after 05.

I prefer to call it converting D because the "format method" is destructive and the "convert method" is not but if you find other SW that converts, by all means, share with us and I'll edit the tutorial and give you credit for testing so others will know what works too...

Okay quick question what would it hurt if you use the drive balancing tool to make sure d: is empty and during a quick format to 64k clusters? (i still haven't converted mine so just asking.)

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

Okay quick question what would it hurt if you use the drive balancing tool to make sure d: is empty and during a quick format to 64k clusters? (i still haven't converted mine so just asking.)

I'm not sure I understand your question. You can use the tool and *then* convert D to 64K but not at the same time. The "convert method" will need a reboot and the "format method" will destroy the data on D which is why it has to be backed up if you use the destructive format method.

If you're talking about a quick format of pool drives, those are done immediately after they are added (one at a time) so the drive balancer tool won't be running either.

Also, any time you remove drives or otherwise move data you should always wait for DE to finish migrating before moving to the next step.

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by S_M_E

I'm not sure I understand your question. You can use the tool and *then* convert D to 64K but not at the same time. The "convert method" will need a reboot and the "format method" will destroy the data on D which is why it has to be backed up if you use the destructive format method.

If you're talking about a quick format of pool drives, those are done immediately after they are added (one at a time) so the drive balancer tool won't be running either.

Also, any time you remove drives or otherwise move data you should always wait for DE to finish migrating before moving to the next step.

Okay I was a little unclear. I am asking simply about the d: drive I know how the others work luckily now. Could you not use drive balancer to make sure all the infomration is off the d drive. Then simply do a format to 64k clusters. Would a backup and restore of files be necessary this why since you are moving all data of the d:?

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

Okay I was a little unclear. I am asking simply about the d: drive I know how the others work luckily now. Could you not use drive balancer to make sure all the infomration is off the d drive. Then simply do a format to 64k clusters. Would a backup and restore of files be necessary this why since you are moving all data of the d:?

Oh, I see. No, you can't do that. The DB tool will move media and files you've added that might be on D but there are a number of other directories and things that the tool will not move.

If you were to quick format D, without having a backup of everything (including hidden folders) there to restore, you would hose WHS, which is why I suggest the "convert method" instead. That said, a few people have copied/moved the entire contents of D to a share, quick formatted and copied/moved the contents back. I still prefer the non-destructive method.

[Beefcake550]

yeah...using my DB app and then formatting D: woudl be a bad idea. I can't do anything about moving the tombstones or other system information. Pleas don't format d: .

converting to 64KB is the only way to do it....but I don't know of a free/cheap way to convert...can anyone field that one?

-Brian

[PLUCKYHD]

I am going to try this weekend taking the drive out and putting in a vista pc and running the trial of norton on it to change the cluster size and then put it back into the WHS

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

I am going to try this weekend taking the drive out and putting in a vista pc and running the trial of norton on it to change the cluster size and then put it back into the WHS

That might work...

[PLUCKYHD]

That is what I am thinking/hoping. Will report back if I try because it least it is a free way. If norton doesn't work surely I can find a free app that runs on non server machines to do it.

Will let everyone know

[Wified]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

That is what I am thinking/hoping. Will report back if I try because it least it is a free way. If norton doesn't work surely I can find a free app that runs on non server machines to do it.

Will let everyone know

Since my D: drive is what's left of a 2Tb WD drive after formatting and 20Mb for the C: drive, I'm really interested in finding an inexpensive way to CONVERT the D: drive from 4K to 64K cluster size. The only three options that I can find are all expensive:

Acronis Disk Director Server = $609
Paragon Partition Manager Server = $299
EASEUS Partition Master Server = $149

Does anyone know of a cheaper/free way to convert the cluster size of the drives?

FYI - I tried the way of copying the files from the D: drive, then quick formatting the D: drive, but the format didn't stick/work. The cluster size remains 4K. And yes, I restarted and checked both using chkdsk /f and Disk Defrag analyse.

I'm brand new to this, but I want to get these drives formatted correctly to use SageTV. I've got two of the 2Tb drives, but am trying to get the D: drive converted first before installing and formatting the 2nd drive in the WHS. Any advice?

[gplasky]

The copy should have worked-it worked for me. Did you do the format through the DIsk Administrator? So make sure all hidden and system files can be seen. Make sure the disk duplication is NOT on for any folders. (You an turn it back on later) Move (or copy) the files to the external drive or a drive NOT in the pool. (Not to any drive in the pool) Format to 64K blocks with Disk Administrator. When done now copy the files back on the D: drive. After that finishes reboot your server and verify the block size is 64k and try not to use your server for anything until all the services and processes catch up.

Gerry

[rmac321]

Originally Posted by gplasky

The copy should have worked-it worked for me. Did you do the format through the DIsk Administrator? So make sure all hidden and system files can be seen. Make sure the disk duplication is NOT on for any folders. (You an turn it back on later) Move (or copy) the files to the external drive or a drive NOT in the pool. (Not to any drive in the pool) Format to 64K blocks with Disk Administrator. When done now copy the files back on the D: drive. After that finishes reboot your server and verify the block size is 64k and try not to use your server for anything until all the services and processes catch up.

Gerry

+1 This is the method I used and it worked fine for me on a 640GB drive.

[Wified]

Originally Posted by gplasky

The copy should have worked-it worked for me. Did you do the format through the DIsk Administrator? So make sure all hidden and system files can be seen. Make sure the disk duplication is NOT on for any folders. (You an turn it back on later) Move (or copy) the files to the external drive or a drive NOT in the pool. (Not to any drive in the pool) Format to 64K blocks with Disk Administrator. When done now copy the files back on the D: drive. After that finishes reboot your server and verify the block size is 64k and try not to use your server for anything until all the services and processes catch up.

Gerry

Thanks so much for your reply. Yes, I used Disk Administrator to do the format - I first tried the quick format a couple of times, restarting each time before checking, but when it didn't stick, I tried the full format, but that didn't stick, either. I copied the files to another drive on my network, not one in the pool. I don't have any other drives in my HP470 WHS, so disk duplication is off. I'm wondering if PowerPack 2 has anything to do with this, since I have this and all other MS updates loaded up before trying this.

I didn't change any of the settings for hidden files - I wonder if that is the issue? That shouldn't prevent the format, though. It might affect what files you did or didn't copy over, right?

The post from PLUCKYHD got me thinking. Is it possible, or even plausible, to shut down the WHS, take out the bottom/system drive, put it in an external drive case, hook it up to another computer, and run a free program that could convert the clusters to 64K, and then put that drive back into the WHS? Would the WHS reformat the disk again, or would it just work? Any reason that I shouldn't try this?

[Wified]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

I am going to try this weekend taking the drive out and putting in a vista pc and running the trial of norton on it to change the cluster size and then put it back into the WHS

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

That is what I am thinking/hoping. Will report back if I try because it least it is a free way. If norton doesn't work surely I can find a free app that runs on non server machines to do it.

Will let everyone know

Did you try this? Did it work?

[PLUCKYHD]

I haven't had time yet as 64k clusters on the drive hasn't been a need yet.

There is no reason it shouldn't work. Just as long as you use a program that is converting the clusters and not reformating.

If you want me to guinea pig it for you I suppose I can within the next week I will try this with a "dummy" whs install and let you know if this works.

[Wified]

Tried several ways to change cluster size on D drive to 64K on my new HP470 WHS with one WD 2Tb drive. Neither of the two methods outlined in post #1 worked for me - neither quick format, nor converting cluster size with Acronis Disk Director 10 Server. Tried several times both ways, reformatting the hard drive each time between attempts to Factory Reset, but neither way would work.

Then I tried to remove the drive from the HP WHS after a Factory Reset. Connected drive up to an XP computer via USB adaptor, and tried both Acronis Disk Director 10 and EaseUS Partition Master 3 to convert cluster size to 64K. Put the disk back into the WHS, Console started up, but the console wouldn't let me add or repair the disk - it just kept kept calculating the size of the disk, but the console would never let me add the disk to the WHS. Looked at disk through Remote Desktop, and everything looked fine there, but could not access the disk through the console.

The only way that I could get this to work was with Paragon Partition Manager 9.0 Server. I Factory Reset the drive in the WHS, loaded on only the MS updates that you are forced to install after Factory Reset, and then installed Partition Manager via Remote Desktop. Converted cluster size to 64K, and everything is working fine.

Because neither of the two methods in post #1 worked for me, I am assuming that either something changed with the software on the HP WHS, or the Western Digital 2Tb disks don't work like previous disks.