SageTV HD Extender Update

[johnnytyler]

I am also disappointed that the hd200 does not carry HD audio streams. It's like having half of the 1080p experience you get great video but not the audio. I feel as if the sage team may be having split personality. Who are they marketing this to. The general public, Sage user, or both. If it was the general public, then this would be no compition they would go for the popcorn hour A110 as it looks better and can pass-thru the hd-audio streams. If it is a Sage user, most of them (including myself) will always want it hooked up to a server to stream for DTV. If both, I think it's missing the mark trying to attract new customers as it is aesthetically not pleasing, and misses some major features that are available on other extenders.

I think I will be one of the sole people, who will pass up the HD200...for now. I'm hoping that the extender has a sigma chip and HDMI 1.3a standard so that the hardware is in place and all it needs is firmware to allow passthru of the HD-audio. For my setup, I have a server with all the hard drives needed to hold my media. I just don't see myself getting up, walking to the extender to put in a flash drive when I want to watch something. So as I said earlier, I am disappointed and will hold off on purchasing for now. I hope that those features (i.e. HD audio implementation) will just be a software upgrade.

[carlgar]

Originally Posted by chrisc983

I hope so because I live by SF so I should hopefully get mine soon. I havn't ordered hardware before. Do I get another email with a tracking number??

Yes, you should get another E-mail,but it probably will not come from sage. I believe it comes from a third party, but the subject is clear that it is a tracking number. Some people miss the E-mail, because it could go to their junk folder.

[Brent]

Originally Posted by johnnytyler

I'm hoping that the extender has a sigma chip and HDMI 1.3a standard so that the hardware is in place and all it needs is firmware to allow passthru of the HD-audio.

Sorry to disappoint, but thought I'd let you know that I'm positive that this new HD200 does not have HDMI 1.3a. It has the HDMI 1.2

[johnnytyler]

Thanks for the update.

[evilpenguin]

Seems like a nice bump for people who either don't have an HD100 or need additional extenders. As for me, I have all the extenders I need, but I was secretly hoping that they'd give me a reason to upgrade. Maybe if it can handle untouched BR A/V rips I'd think about it.

[bjkiller]

Originally Posted by Brent

Sorry to disappoint, but thought I'd let you know that I'm positive that this new HD200 does not have HDMI 1.3a. It has the HDMI 1.2

if you check the sigma specs, no one current hardware players has no 1.3a.
both chips 863x and 862x is not 1.3a.

http://www.sigmadesigns.com/public/P...ion_guide.html

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by johnnytyler

I am also disappointed that the hd200 does not carry HD audio streams. It's like having half of the 1080p experience you get great video but not the audio.

That's probably the biggest myth in the entire Blu-ray/HD DVD world. You don't need HDMI 1.3 to get "HD audio". HDMI 1.1 or 1.2 with multichannel PCM will get you the same quality as bitstreamed audio. I have a suspision that the HD100 doesn't support multichannel PCM over HDMI, but I think the HD200 can (if not initially, hopefully via a firmware update)

For my setup, I have a server with all the hard drives needed to hold my media. I just don't see myself getting up, walking to the extender to put in a flash drive when I want to watch something. So as I said earlier, I am disappointed and will hold off on purchasing for now.

The only niggle with lack of bitstream on the HD100 would be that you'd have to convert the TrueHD/DTS-HD to PCM (or hopefully FLAC). No quality loss. So yeah, may be worth holding out to see if multichannel PCM/FLAC ends up being supported. But lack of HBR bitsreaming isn't that big of a deal IMO. HBR bitstreaming is BS IMO.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by evilpenguin

Maybe if it can handle untouched BR A/V rips I'd think about it.

I would not expect anything to handle that for a long, long time.

[kurt711]

Originally Posted by Brent

Sorry to disappoint, but thought I'd let you know that I'm positive that this new HD200 does not have HDMI 1.3a. It has the HDMI 1.2

Aww brent, killed my hopes. I was hoping once sage sells out of HD200, they will push firmware upgrade to allow DTS-HD passthrough. Without HDMI 1.3, only hope is SPIDIF. I'm a new Sage user, well not new but haven't used sage since version 3 something i think. Have been using tivo and media center but bought the extender with sage bundle since if I don't like Sage or if its too limited, I can atleast use it as stand alone player. I have Windows home server that is running all the time so trying to use it as a media server/streamer as well(save power usage). It was toss up between popcorn hour and GB-PVR(trial and error) on WHS or Sage for WHS and this box. I hope HD audio gets enabled somehow but even if it doesn't as long as the extender is stable and doesn't lag when loaded up with nice UI, I'll be a happy sage user.

[Opus4]

To answer the previous questions about attaching a DVD drive to the USB2 ports: I don't think that would work. You should be able to attach USB hard drives & flash drives, as example devices that could be used, but DVD drives may operate differntly and would not be recognized if that is true. And, even if the DVD drive were recognized, commercial DVDs wouldn't play; only home-made DVDs would work since they wouldn't have commercial encryption added.

- Andy

[iammike]

Originally Posted by carlgar

The Los Angeles area.

It's too bad they don't offer priority mail as a shipping option. For us east cost guys, UPS ground is slow from California and UPS 3 day is kind of pricey. Guess it will be mid to late next week before I get to play with the new toy.

[evilpenguin]

Originally Posted by stanger89

I would not expect anything to handle that for a long, long time.

Well, by A/V rips I meant just a video and audio track in an mkv container, not the whole thing, which I assume is pretty plausible.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by kurt711

Aww brent, killed my hopes. I was hoping once sage sells out of HD200, they will push firmware upgrade to allow DTS-HD passthrough. Without HDMI 1.3, only hope is SPIDIF.

Sorry, but that's wrong. HD audio is fully supported by multichannel PCM over HDMI 1.0+ (or 1.1 at least). So provided Sage includes logic support for multichannel PCM, the HD200 can support full HD audio.

I hope HD audio gets enabled somehow but even if it doesn't as long as the extender is stable and doesn't lag when loaded up with nice UI, I'll be a happy sage user.

The HD200 is pretty nice, maybe not quite as fast as a PC but close perhaps.

Originally Posted by evilpenguin

Well, by A/V rips I meant just a video and audio track in an mkv container, not the whole thing, which I assume is pretty plausible.

Well with eac3to, it's pretty trivial to convert audio to a supported format while you're remuxing to MKV

[valnar]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Well with eac3to, it's pretty trivial to convert audio to a supported format while you're remuxing to MKV

Yes, but unless I'm wrong, don't you have to dumb down the audio to AC3 or DTS to get multichannel support that most receivers understand?

[evilpenguin]

Originally Posted by valnar

Yes, but unless I'm wrong, don't you have to dumb down the audio to AC3 or DTS to get multichannel support that most receivers understand?

I like how we're calling AC3 and DTS "dumbed down" now days as if they were an assault on the ears

[johnnytyler]

Originally Posted by stanger89

The only niggle with lack of bitstream on the HD100 would be that you'd have to convert the TrueHD/DTS-HD to PCM (or hopefully FLAC). No quality loss. So yeah, may be worth holding out to see if multichannel PCM/FLAC ends up being supported. But lack of HBR bitsreaming isn't that big of a deal IMO. HBR bitstreaming is BS IMO.

Stanger89, I appreciate your comment, but I humbly disagree. while I agree that lossless audio maybe overrated. If your a purist, you want to mix your HD movies back into the same audio and video steams that it came with. (at least that's what I like to do, and have done with my prior DVDs). I agree that if the HD200 can support multi-track FLAC's that would be great, as this would allow for remuxing of lossless. Finally, I would want to have one MKV that will work with a fairly standard set of HD codecs. I don't want to have an MKV that is Sage centric and not easily playable on other players if I choose to change in the future, or if Sage catches up and add's pass thru of HD audo codecs, then I will have a bunch of MKV's with PCM or non-standard (i.e. not easily transcodable) audio tracks.

Don't get me wrong, if you don't have extenders than I agree that the HD200 is an "evolutionary" product. If you don't and are living with clients, GET ONE, you will wonder how you never lived without. But if you have extenders (I have 2 HD100) with no need for stand alone functions. I just don't see the point in this hardware upgrade.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by valnar

Yes, but unless I'm wrong, don't you have to dumb down the audio to AC3 or DTS to get multichannel support that most receivers understand?

Not via HDMI 1.1+, assuming both devices support multichannel PCM.

Originally Posted by johnnytyler

Stanger89, I appreciate your comment, but I humbly disagree. while I agree that lossless audio maybe overrated.

I'm not saying lossless audio is overrated, I'm saying the idea that bitstream passthrough via HDMI 1.3 is somehow supperior to multichannel PCM via HDMI 1.1+ is without merit. There's no sonic (or mathematical) difference between the two. They're exactly the same.

If your a purist, you want to mix your HD movies back into the same audio and video steams that it came with. (at least that's what I like to do, and have done with my prior DVDs).

The difference with DVD (vs BD) is that the audio was lossy-compressed, so you want to avoid converting to another lossy format at all costs. And converting to a lossless format is a wastel, space wise.

Conversely, with Blu-ray you can convert the lossless TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio track to PCM or multichannel FLAC and have no loss whatsoever (just like ripping CDs to FLAC).

I agree that if the HD200 can support multi-track FLAC's that would be great, as this would allow for remuxing of lossless. Finally, I would want to have one MKV that will work with a fairly standard set of HD codecs. I don't want to have an MKV that is Sage centric and not easily playable on other players if I choose to change in the future, or if Sage catches up and add's pass thru of HD audo codecs, then I will have a bunch of MKV's with PCM or non-standard (i.e. not easily transcodable) audio tracks.

I don't see how that will happen. FLAC is pretty standard, and rather easilly transcoded into other formats.

Don't get me wrong, if you don't have extenders than I agree that the HD200 is an "evolutionary" product. If you don't and are living with clients, GET ONE, you will wonder how you never lived without. But if you have extenders (I have 2 HD100) with no need for stand alone functions. I just don't see the point in this hardware upgrade.

Oh, true, the HD200 would be a very hard sell as an upgrade over an HD100.

[jmv]

Sounds like everyone has the same question...can the HD200 pass through HD multi-channel audio to a receiver through HDMI. If so, what formats in what containers...if not why did you introduce HD200 w/o this one key feature that the HD100 seemed to lack...

Before realizing everyone else had the same question...I e-mailed Sage service...maybe if we all did this, they'd realize this is THE feature the HDxxx needs...there are only 2 things I care about in a Sage enabled HD Extender...1) pass through HD audio 2) faster cover art/scroll.

[johnnytyler]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Conversely, with Blu-ray you can convert the lossless TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio track to PCM or multichannel FLAC and have no loss whatsoever (just like ripping CDs to FLAC).

You are right, but it stills remains to be seen, if Sage will support mutlichannel 7.1 PCM or FLAC. In addition, we will have to see if the HD200 or HD100 have the horsepower to decode, or do you think this would be pass-thru?

[CollinR]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Oh, true, the HD200 would be a very hard sell as an upgrade over an HD100.

And none at SageTV has suggested, this is mearly getting more for the same $. It's not like you need to trade in your HD100 or it's license won't renew. The HD100 was Sage's first attempt they probably dealt with some issues that many not have effected your installation or issues that were not critical to begin with.

It's obvious from the pictures that IR reception problems of the HD100 were heard and both a free bandaide fix was supplied and a real hardware fix was implemented.