Multiple HDHomeRun networking advice needed

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by CarlR

Sorry, I meant to disconnect the GB switch from the rest of your network (connections 1 and 3). In this configuration, the HDHRs will get an IP address assignment from the HDHR Manager software, so you won't need to set up your own DHCP server on the SageTV PC (this at least has worked for me, I have read that others have had some problems).

So now the only traffic through the new GB switch and NIC is the HDHR data. As I said, it seems you should have plenty of bandwidth for the HDHR data plus everything else, but I couldn't get it to work in that configuration.

r00st3r you need a second NIC for this kind of setup.

The HDHR Manager does not assign an IP address. What the HDHR does is that if it doesn't get an IP address through DHCP and it detects a computer on the network with a 169.x.x.x address, the same that Windows assigns itself if it does not get a DHCP response, it will assign itself an address in the same range Windows defaults to. But the Manager does not have a DHCP server built into it.

This can cause problems when trying to remotely administer a SageTV server though. Particularly if you have your HDHR directly connected to the computer and not going through a switch. This is because once the HDHR sees a network connect it attempts to get an address. So does Windows. Windows takes a long time to attempt to get an address. If Windows isn't done getting an address before the HDHR, it will not initialize properly. As such, remote administration becomes impossible when a reboot is needed.

I recommend giving a second gigabit NIC a static IP and running TFTPD32 bonded to it for a DHCP server. Put the HDHR on a gigabit switch rather than direct connecting it to the computer. Even when you're running a DHCP server this can cause issues with the HDHR not initializing properly.

I have mine connected that way and it runs flawlessly. Granted, I only have a single HDHR but it runs flawlessly. The other night I had both HDHR tuners working and my HD-PVR recording and it all went off without a hitch.

[r00st3r]

I have a few issues\questions with the previous posts.

I have all 5 ports used on gigabit switch.
1.To FIOS router for internet access
2.To Sage Box
3.To NAS box (archved TV shows,Movies etc.. not recording drive)
4.To HDHR1
5.To HDHR2

r00st3r you need a second NIC for this kind of setup... Put the HDHR on a gigabit switch rather than direct connecting it to the computer.

The HDHR's are on a GB Switch.

Um, why would I need a 2ndNIC? 1 GB should be plenty for throughput for all.
I don't have room for a 2nd NIC as I only have 3xPCI (video card, audio card and Gigabit Nic), so that's out.

Disconnect the GB switch from the rest of your network (connections 1 and 3)

If I disconnect connection 1.(To FIOS router) for internet access, then Sage has no internet access for guide data, updates, IMDB etc..

If I disconnect 3(To the NAS box) then I won't have access to archived movies and tv shows on my NAS

the HDHRs will get an IP address assignment from the HDHR Manager software

The HDHR Manager does not assign an IP address

Two different statements from two different posters that conflict each other.
I have access to the HDHR's and I am getting video so I know they have an IP address. My FIOS router gives out the DHCP's on my network. Looking at my FIOS Router page shows my HDHR's have IP's assigned to them (192.168.1.3 and 192.168.1.4 respectively and my Sage Box is 192.168.1.5) so I am not sure what you mean about not getting IP addresses from DHCP (if I disconnect my FIOS router from the GB Switch, then they wouldn't get addresses assigned.)

If a another member got it to work reverting back to 6.4.3 version of Sage when it wouldn't work with 6.4.4 +, I don't think it's a hardware issue. But I could be wrong.

I appreciate all your help guys... A good test would be to downgrade to 6.4.3, but I don't want to hose my settings.

A post over at silicon dust reads...

Hi,

We are working with SageTV to get the issue fixed in SageTV.

Nick

[Taddeusz]

Certainly a single gigabit connection SHOULD be enough. But sometimes due to the type of traffic and such a single connection is not, for whatever reasons, enough. The main problem with the current official HDHR driver is that when doing QAM it sends the entire transport stream for a frequency over the network rather than singling out the one stream in it that you actually care about. Meaning that it could be using up to 40Mb/s if both tuners are working. 80Mb/s if you have all four of yours running.

Technically a single gigabit connection should be enough for this plus more but there are other limitations also such as available internal bus bandwidth and such. Until Silicon Dust fixes this problem with their drivers you're going to be bandwidth limited on both your network and on whatever bus your NIC is on. Remember, the PCI bus is actually not enough for a full gigabit connection.

The reason for running TFTPD32 is because it includes a DHCP server that can be bonded to a second NIC rather than relying on the unreliable built-in auto configure. In my case I have an x1 PCI Express Intel gigabit NIC that I use for my "internet" network and I use the on-board gigabit NIC strictly for my HDHR. That NIC is a completely separate network. The DHCP server is bonded to it so that any device on that network will get an address from it. Any device on the rest of my network gets an address from my wireless router.

The reason I do this is for network traffic separation. That way I don't have HDHR recording congesting the rest of my network. I wish I could do the same with my HD Extender but they require direct internet access for their updates.

[r00st3r]

Silicon dust says it's a sage issue with PID fIltering. I don't know who has the issue to be honest.


If I have the HDHR's and the SAGE BOX on the GB Switch(along with my connection to my router for internet access and all my other connections on my router), then my HDHR's are not congesting the rest of my network, are they? Maybe I am just not understanding. The pci bus should handle a maximum throughput of 200mb - half duplex


Here is the setup I have.

FIOS Router-->GB Switch-->HDHR's, SageBox, NAS

FIOS Router-->Netgear 10\100MB switch-->all other PC's and xbox360

So are you saying:
Disconnect the GB switch from the FIOS and connect it to the GB NIC. Run TFTPD32 to DHCP the HDHR's and remove all other connections to the GB Switch ( I could put all other connections over on the 10/100 switch).

Connect the 10/100 switch to my internal 10/100 for internet and access to the NAS and the rest of the network.

[Taddeusz]

Hmm... since you're onboard NIC is only 10/100 that would be ok unless you're doing something network intensive on it. Do you ever transfer data between your SageTV server and your NAS. And I mean not just for playback but for recording or otherwise?

What other slots do you have in this computer? Any PCIe slots?

[r00st3r]

I do not record anything to the nas. Just for playback only dvd and 720p hd content. I'll have to check to see if my pcie slot is available.

[CarlR]

Originally Posted by r00st3r

Two different statements from two different posters that conflict each other.
I have access to the HDHR's and I am getting video so I know they have an IP address. My FIOS router gives out the DHCP's on my network. Looking at my FIOS Router page shows my HDHR's have IP's assigned to them (192.168.1.3 and 192.168.1.4 respectively and my Sage Box is 192.168.1.5) so I am not sure what you mean about not getting IP addresses from DHCP (if I disconnect my FIOS router from the GB Switch, then they wouldn't get addresses assigned.)

Yes, I was talking about a configuration where the GB switch only connects the HDHRs to the PC, not to the rest of the network.

I apologize for causing some confusion here. I thought I had read somewhere that the HDHR Manager software supplied an IP address the HDHRs when they were not connected to a DHCP server, but it sounds like Taddeusz probably understands the details better than I.

I do know that it's working for me without a DHCP server running on my SageTV server PC. I've assigned a static IP address of 169.254.x.x to the NIC associated with the HDHRs, and everything seems to be working fine - it boots unattended and I can log in remotely via remote login for administration. So it is possible to set up this configuration this way, but maybe running the DHCP server on the SageTV server is more reliable.

[r00st3r]

OK some futile testing...

Removed everything from the GB switch except the two HDHR's and the sage box. Set the IP address on the GB NIC on the sage box to 169.254.1.100 (not 192.254.X.X) and rescanned the tuners on the HDHR using the HDHR Setup and it found all 4 of them. Opened up sage, record 1 channel, record 2 channel..OK...record\watch 3rd channel...video freeze. Same thing.

CPU 12%
Disk @5Mbps
Network @115Mbps
Memory @28%

It doesn't make a difference in my setup whether I have the GB switch isolated and connected to the PC or If I hook my router and NAS back up to the GB Switch.

[Taddeusz]

It was worth a shot. I suppose you probably won't have any joy until the PID problem between SageTV and the HDHR drivers is fixed.

[r00st3r]

I think you are right. I am going to test a trial version of Beyond, or maybe meedio or media portal to test the recording of more than 3 channels. If it works, then I know it's Sage..If It doesn't, then I might just be a dumbass!

[r00st3r]

Just got a reply from the fine folks at SiliconDust after I enabled logging on the HDHR's.

We are working with SageTV to fix issues with the PID filtering, however according to our logs your issue is actually poor reception caused by a faulty power adapter.

It appears that the power adapter for 10132077 has failed and the adapter on 101165F5 is failing.

They are sending me two new adapters. We'll see if it makes an improvement.

[r00st3r]

Ok, I got the new power adapters, but no change in performance. Of course it didn't help that Verizon also changed my channels\lineup. As soon as I watch\record 3rd tuner, all sage video\recordings crap out...If I take off the 3rd recording(or stop watching it), then video\recordings resume.

I changed two things today.

1. performed Vista Updates.

2. Changed the registry for networkthrottlingindex from 10 to 70 (even though most sites say it won't have an impact.

3. Rebooted.

Viola! I was able to not only able to record the 3rd channel, but a 4th as well. I am doing this remoted into the sage box, so it seemed to work OK, but the real test will be when I get home.

Sometimes I just don't get it....

[Taddeusz]

While I like Vista and have it running on my main computer. Things like this are going to keep me from running it as my SageTV server.

[r00st3r]

I'm using the sage server as my client as well...bummer...

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by r00st3r

I'm using the sage server as my client as well...bummer...

I run a dedicated headless SageTV server. I don't also use it as a client.