Let Sage know you want EVR support

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by mkanet

I've had hardware acceleration with Cyberlink H.264 video decoders for over a year now (version 7, and now 8); both in SageTV and WMP using under Vista32. (using TS containers).

I'm using the H.264 decoder from PowerDVD 8 and am unable to get full H.264 decoding in SageTV in Vista x64. From either TS or MKV files. My CPU usage goes between 10-30% during playback. With EVRPlay my CPU is barely touch with either the Cyberlink or Arcsoft decoders.

[babgvant]

I can confirm a similar experience. Using EVRPlay the CPU usage is usually around 2-3%.

It doesn't seem that the ArcSoft one does significant HW offload w/ VMR9. I have tried using Cyberlink, but I can only get decent playback with ArcSoft.

[redondo_se]

Originally Posted by mkanet

I've had hardware acceleration with Cyberlink H.264 video decoders for over a year now (version 7, and now 8); both in SageTV and WMP using under Vista32. (using TS containers).

HUH? How? Everything I've read and my personal experience says it's not possible without EVR on Vista. Yes, you can get it in WMP, because that uses EVR.

You've responded to this thread multiple times, why didn't you mention this before? Are you sure you're getting hardware acceleration in SageTV for H.264 on Vista?

[mkanet]

I'm not using EVR in sageTV; and, dont need it to playback hardware accelerated H.264 files in sageTV or WMP (although WMP uses it by default under Vista). Im guessing most people who have problems with hardware acceleration and H.264 are the people who choose not to use .ts or mp4 containers. I use only ts files I produce via TS Muxer. I know right away when hardware acceleration isn't working on a avc H.264 1080P file; it gets kinda choppy on some scenes and excessive CPU usage; as opposed to almost no CPU usage.

It's really no big deal to get hardware accelerated H.264 files to play in sageTV or in any directshow player using Cyberlink H.264 decoders and VMR9; so long as you have the right display adapter, respective driver, and decoder.

The only thing I had to do was put the below command in my properties file for PowerDVD 8:

videoframe/h264_video_decoder_filter=CyberLink H.264/AVC Decoder (PDVD8)

Originally Posted by redondo_se

HUH? How? Everything I've read and my personal experience says it's not possible without EVR on Vista. Yes, you can get it in WMP, because that uses EVR.

You've responded to this thread multiple times, why didn't you mention this before? Are you sure you're getting hardware acceleration in SageTV for H.264 on Vista?

[babgvant]

The container shouldn't have any effect on the the decoder. The simplest test is to get a copy of graphedit, add the repective filters to the graph along with the renderer you want to test. Select "Render Media File" to open the file, then press play.

[redondo_se]

Originally Posted by mkanet

It's really no big deal to get hardware accelerated H.264 files to play in sageTV or in any directshow player using Cyberlink H.264 decoders and VMR9; so long as you have the right display adapter, respective driver, and decoder.

Please do expand. This is the critical point you are glossing over.

Please mkanet, I have respect for you and I've seen a lot of valuable posts from you around this forum, but throw us a freakin bone.

[babgvant]

To make it easy on everyone look at the results below. These are all with the same 720p HD HD-PVR capture. This on a quad proc box so 25% is 1 proc maxed.


22%

22%

0%

[mkanet]

Actually, thats not true. At least not when it comes to ts verses mkv. It wil be a while before companies like cyberlink support full spec mkv like they do ts; especially for H.264 video/audio.

But yes, graphedit is pretty userfriendly and does show what's going on.

Originally Posted by babgvant

The container shouldn't have any effect on the the decoder. The simplest test is to get a copy of graphedit, add the repective filters to the graph along with the renderer you want to test. Select "Render Media File" to open the file, then press play.

[mkanet]

PM me, and I will try my best to help.

-Michael

Originally Posted by redondo_se

Please do expand. This is the critical point you are glossing over.

Please mkanet, I have respect for you and I've seen a lot of valuable posts from you around this forum, but throw us a freakin bone.

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by mkanet

Actually, thats not true. At least not when it comes to ts verses mkv. It wil be a while before companies like cyberlink support full spec mkv like they do ts; especially for H.264 video/audio.

But yes, graphedit is pretty userfriendly and does show what's going on.

Actually, it is true. DirectShow is designed to allow filters to be agnostic to each other (filters can override this behavior, but they must be designed to do so).

[mkanet]

Yes, the proof is right there, there are many cases like below that wont let you connect cyberlink audio decoders with mkv; especially when using cyberlink splitters. But, you're actually proving my case not yours. I dont have hardware acceleration with mkv nor can I connect cyberlink audio; at least on my setup; requiring 3rd party decoders.

Originally Posted by babgvant

Actually, it is true. DirectShow is designed to allow filters to be agnostic to each other (filters can override this behavior, but they must be designed to do so).

[Ryokurin]

It depends on how you look at it.

PowerDVD, the player won't support mkv for a while, if not ever. It will sometimes work if you rename the file, but you can't count on it. and it did used to not allow hardware acceleration of h264 files via DirectShow a year or so ago, but now does, as long as the file is profile compliant, and the renderer is EVR. I believe that's what was meant.

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by mkanet

Yes, the proof is right there, there are many cases like below that wont let you connect cyberlink audio decoders with mkv; especially when using cyberlink splitters. But, you're actually proving my case not yours. I dont have hardware acceleration with mkv nor can I connect cyberlink audio; at least on my setup; requiring 3rd party decoders.

Using EVRPlay I get hardware acceleration on my mkv movies using the latest PowerDVD 8 H.264 decoder. For MKV files to play correctly using DirectShow you need to install the Haali Media Splitter. It also helps in playing back MKV files from SageTV when you use DirectShow for H.264 video.

I do not get acceleration from my Cyberlink H.264 decoder otherwise. Looking at the results of DXVA Checker on my system H.264 acceleration is only supported using DXVA2. So I will only ever get H.264 acceleration using EVR.

[mkanet]

Exactly... Except, I get hardware acceleration using VMR9 without the Haali splitter; using cyberlink splitter.. Cyberlink seems to have much better support for TS containers for H.264; hence, why I said that not all containers are equal; it will be a while before Cyberlink (and others) start supporting full spec mkv.

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

Using EVRPlay I get hardware acceleration on my mkv movies using the latest PowerDVD 8 H.264 decoder. For MKV files to play correctly using DirectShow you need to install the Haali Media Splitter. It also helps in playing back MKV files from SageTV when you use DirectShow for H.264 video.

I do not get acceleration from my Cyberlink H.264 decoder otherwise. Looking at the results of DXVA Checker on my system H.264 acceleration is only supported using DXVA2. So I will only ever get H.264 acceleration using EVR.

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by mkanet

Yes, the proof is right there, there are many cases like below that wont let you connect cyberlink audio decoders with mkv; especially when using cyberlink splitters. But, you're actually proving my case not yours. I dont have hardware acceleration with mkv nor can I connect cyberlink audio; at least on my setup; requiring 3rd party decoders.

It's not that the Cyberlink decoder won't connect with MKV, it's that it won't connect to the default audio renderer. Try building the same graph with a ts file, and the result will be the same (at least it is on my pc). Manually add the Cyberlink decoder and it is happy to connect up to the AC-3 audio pin on any container (MKV, DVR-MS, or ts).

A file container is just like any other container (think food storage), what comes out is the same as what went in. And once it's out, the stream is what it is h.264 = h.264, ac-3 = ac-3 to the decoder it doesn't matter how it was stored while persisted. You don't have to take my word for it, the Platform SDK is an excellent resource on DirectShow and how it works.

Anyway, we're getting off topic. I believe you claimed to be able to get HW acceleration with h.264 content on Vista w/o using the EVR. But we're still waiting for you to actually demonstrate it.

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by Ryokurin

It depends on how you look at it.

PowerDVD, the player won't support mkv for a while, if not ever. It will sometimes work if you rename the file, but you can't count on it. and it did used to not allow hardware acceleration of h264 files via DirectShow a year or so ago, but now does, as long as the file is profile compliant, and the renderer is EVR. I believe that's what was meant.

While it's true that the Cyberlink player may not support opening mkv (or other containers), that has no effect on the underlying engine's (directshow) ability to playback that file type.

Generally, decoder filters either support a feature or they don't. While it is possible to limit a feature to a specific player, most often (recommended approach) filters are registered with an appropriate merit to prevent automatic inclusion. One step beyond that is to have the filter examine some artifact (like process name) to determine if they should join (nero does that).

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by babgvant

It's not that the Cyberlink decoder won't connect with MKV, it's that it won't connect to the default audio renderer. Try building the same graph with a ts file, and the result will be the same (at least it is on my pc). Manually add the Cyberlink decoder and it is happy to connect up to the AC-3 audio pin on any container (MKV, DVR-MS, or ts).

A file container is just like any other container (think food storage), what comes out is the same as what went in. And once it's out, the stream is what it is h.264 = h.264, ac-3 = ac-3 to the decoder it doesn't matter how it was stored while persisted. You don't have to take my word for it, the Platform SDK is an excellent resource on DirectShow and how it works.

Anyway, we're getting off topic. I believe you claimed to be able to get HW acceleration with h.264 content on Vista w/o using the EVR. But we're still waiting for you to actually demonstrate it.

I was having problems earlier getting the Cyberlink Audio Decoder to connect to the audio pin on the Haali Media Splitter. Arcsoft was fine though.

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

I was having problems earlier getting the Cyberlink Audio Decoder to connect to the audio pin on the Haali Media Splitter. Arcsoft was fine though.

Try using "Cyberlink Audio Decode (PDVD7.x)".

[mkanet]

Yes, I know how containers work in respect to the streams they contain; not much to it. However, you mentioned "The container shouldn't have any effect on the the decoder." I was just saying that a lot of people have reported problems in the past trying to use Cyberlink only filters (not just video filter) to get hardware acceleration with mkv as opposed to ts.

I actually posted a screenshot several messages ago.. but it was mysteriously removed (Andy??? our friendly moderator) . I think the pic might have been too big... anyway, here it is again..

Originally Posted by babgvant

It's not that the Cyberlink decoder won't connect with MKV, it's that it won't connect to the default audio renderer. Try building the same graph with a ts file, and the result will be the same (at least it is on my pc). Manually add the Cyberlink decoder and it is happy to connect up to the AC-3 audio pin on any container (MKV, DVR-MS, or ts).

A file container is just like any other container (think food storage), what comes out is the same as what went in. And once it's out, the stream is what it is h.264 = h.264, ac-3 = ac-3 to the decoder it doesn't matter how it was stored while persisted. You don't have to take my word for it, the Platform SDK is an excellent resource on DirectShow and how it works.

Anyway, we're getting off topic. I believe you claimed to be able to get HW acceleration with h.264 content on Vista w/o using the EVR. But we're still waiting for you to actually demonstrate it.

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by mkanet

Yes, I know how containers work in respect to the streams they contain; not much to it. However, you mentioned "The container shouldn't have any effect on the the decoder." I was just saying that a lot of people have reported problems in the past trying to use Cyberlink only filters (not just video filter) to get hardware acceleration with mkv as opposed to ts.

I actually posted a screenshot several messages ago.. but it was mysteriously removed (Andy??? our friendly moderator) . I think the pic might have been too big... anyway, here it is again..

I see that checkbox too, the problem is that checking it doesn't reduce CPU utilization; where replacing VMR with EVR does.