HD-PVR and Mac

[MichaelLAX]

I had my Hauppauge since last Monday, and no luck using it on my Mac Mini with either Parallels or VMWare Fusion with Windows XP. I am currently working with Parallels tech support and hope for VMWare tech support shortly.

I was alerted to the possibility of using SageTV on the Mac and I have installed SageTV Media Center v6.4.3. It gets to the SageTV is initializing stage and no further with the HD-PVR plugged into the USB port (and the Mac System Profiler reporting that it is indeed in the High Speed USB port). Am I missing installing anything else? How do I configure it?

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

[jbellanca]

Originally Posted by MichaelLAX

I had my Hauppauge since last Monday, and no luck using it on my Mac Mini with either Parallels or VMWare Fusion with Windows XP. I am currently working with Parallels tech support and hope for VMWare tech support shortly.

I was alerted to the possibility of using SageTV on the Mac and I have installed SageTV Media Center v6.4.3. It gets to the SageTV is initializing stage and no further with the HD-PVR plugged into the USB port (and the Mac System Profiler reporting that it is indeed in the High Speed USB port). Am I missing installing anything else? How do I configure it?

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

I've been using my HD PVR through Boot Camp perfectly on my 2.8ghz C2D aluminum iMac. I couldn't get the drivers to install properly through Parallels, but it works perfectly through Boot Camp. (Except for the #$%&*@ overheating issue with the HD PVR, not the Mac's fault tho.) I tried booting up the Boot Camp partition in Parallels after the drivers were installed, and it records through Parallels that way, but the resulting TS file won't play for some reason. Kinda odd, only tried it that way once. Works perfectly though if you boot up into Windows via Boot Camp. I've been using it that way very reliably for a week now. That would be awesome though if you could convince the Parallels guys to get it to work in there - I'd much rather not have to reboot into Windows if I can avoid it!

[MichaelLAX]

I found you! (or you found me...)

BootCamp is not an option for me as my only Intel Mac is a Mac Mini with broken video output, so I use it headless and control it from my Powerbook G4 thru VNC. I just don't see how I can use it in Boot Camp in that circumstance - darn! Have to think about that some more.

Also have Parallels tech support working on it and perhaps VMWare tech support as well...

I gave you a detailed reply about transoding on the VisualHub Forum (I don't get email notification on that Forum for some strange reason, so let's keep communicating here):


http://www.isquint.org/cgi-bin/ikonb...st=#entry28388

I ask for some sample on that post, so if you can provide them, that would be great! Thanks! NOTE: I don't seem to be getting email notifications here either; will have to check junk mailbox; but I'll keep checking here...

[MichaelLAX]

I've been thinking some more about this and based upon your success with Parallels after Boot Camp, I am going to borrow a Mac, install a Boot Camp partition and install the HD-PVR drivers and then move that Partition over to my Mac Mini and run it with Parallels...

[EDIT]: Oops, I just reread your post and you say that the resulting .TS file will not run after using Parallels... darn!

[jbellanca]

Originally Posted by MichaelLAX

I just don't see how I can use it in Boot Camp in that circumstance - darn! Have to think about that some more.

Hmm, that's a tough one. Do you know anyone else with a Mac? You could take an image of their boot camp partition (with a VNC server installed) and overlay your BC partition with it. That's about all I can come up with offhand. Best bet probably would be getting a used Mac Mini.

Originally Posted by MichaelLAX

I gave you a detailed reply about transoding on the VisualHub Forum (I don't get email notification on that Forum for some strange reason, so let's keep communicating here):

Cool, I haven't checked over here. Turns out I just assumed that VH wouldn't convert the TS files, so I tried to get it to convert the MP4 files. Well, bad assumption on my part because VH does convert the TS files perfectly, so I there's really no need to get VH to work with the MP4 files. I still can provide samples if you want them. I'd still like to figure out what the presets in VH do exactly and if I can use a variable bitrate. I'll go check out your post over there.

[jbellanca]

Originally Posted by MichaelLAX

[EDIT]: Oops, I just reread your post and you say that the resulting .TS file will not run after using Parallels... darn!

Yeah, that's kinda weird. Everything LOOKS like it's working fine, but for some reason the TS file won't play. I tried doing it once over the weekend. I can give it another shot this weekend to see if it was a fluke. Also, I had to record to an external drive since the Hauppauge software won't record to a network drive, which is how Parallels sees the Mac HD.

[MichaelLAX]

Great tip: Boot Camp; thanks!

I borrowed a 1.83GHz Core2Duo Mac Mini and installed Windows XP in Boot Camp and the HD-PVR drivers installed instantly and so did the software.

I did a 5 minute capture of a 4x3 program that was in 720x480p so I would have a sample file to work with.

I am currently capturing another 45 minute show at the same resolution. Tomorrow I will connect the HD-PVR to my DirecTV HD receiver and start working on capturing HD.

Then I have to figure out your suggestion above about moving the Boot Camp partition over to my Mac Mini and installing VNC... I've got a couple of weeks to work on that...

[MichaelLAX]

Originally Posted by jbellanca

Yeah, that's kinda weird. Everything LOOKS like it's working fine, but for some reason the TS file won't play. I tried doing it once over the weekend. I can give it another shot this weekend to see if it was a fluke. Also, I had to record to an external drive since the Hauppauge software won't record to a network drive, which is how Parallels sees the Mac HD.

Yes, please try it again. I want to figure out how to move the Boot Camp partition over to my Mac Mini and get it to run headless in Windows with VNC; and also if Parallels will support it, all the better.

Can't Hauppauge record to the Windows drive in Parallels and then just access it from there afterwards? That's how I am working with Boot Camp. I have to learn Windows file sharing (I can't figure out how to log in to it from another Mac, so I come in as a Guest; so I have to move the .TS file to the Guest shared folder to access on my other Mac). Then I am transcoding on another Mac. I do not want to transcode and digitize on the same Machine at the same time.

Interesting experience with 720x480 output into the Hauppauge. I have to adjust VisualHub's aspect ratio to regain the anamorphic output.

File sizes drop dramatically too with VH.

I can't figure out why the Hauppauge is seeing the input as 59.94??? More on this later; maybe the full version of ArcSoft's Total will supply that option, but I am afraid to try their demo and lose functionality on the supplied ArcSoft software after 30 days.

Also, I posted a question for Tyler on the VH forum asking why the MP4 files outputted from VH with just video and audio passthru will not open in QuickTime...

Any ideas? I don't need those samples, now...

[MichaelLAX]

OK: My HD-PVR is going back for RMA: 720p encodings cause freeze up after 1-2 mins.

I did a sample of Get Shorty off of my DirecTV HD DVR from the MGM-HD channel. It comes out as 1280x720 59.94fps.

A VH transcode at AppleTV gives me 960x540 at 29.97 fps.

If I add the Advanced Setting of ntsc-film to the frame rate box, it comes out as 1280x720 at 23.97fps, however on my computer it looks choppy not as smooth as the earlier transcode.

I am going to watch both of them on my AppleTV later today.

UPDATE: after watching on the AppleTV, there is definitely a stutter introduced into the film-ntsc transcode to 23.97 fps. Don't you notice it?

[jbellanca]

Originally Posted by MichaelLAX

OK: My HD-PVR is going back for RMA: 720p encodings cause freeze up after 1-2 mins.

You too, huh? I just got my RMA number so it's being sent back this weekend when I get back home (traveling for work right now).

Originally Posted by MichaelLAX

A VH transcode at AppleTV gives me 960x540 at 29.97 fps.

Yeah, I didn't notice this until you pointed it out. Glad you mentioned it, it never occurred to me to check the output resolution. (I know, I should have.) I didn't try 23.97 in the frame rate box yet. Have you tried setting the size to 1280x720? I'm testing an encode right now with that set and I'll report back. I'll give the 23.97 just to see if I see the same stutter.[/QUOTE]

[jbellanca]

Originally Posted by MichaelLAX

Yes, please try it again.

I'll test it again this weekend.

Originally Posted by MichaelLAX

Can't Hauppauge record to the Windows drive in Parallels and then just access it from there afterwards?

Yeah, that should work. But I keep my Windows partition very small (almost never use it. Well, until this thing came out. So didn't want to waste the space.)

Originally Posted by MichaelLAX

I can't figure out how to log in to it from another Mac, so I come in as a Guest; so I have to move the .TS file to the Guest shared folder to access on my other Mac

You could always FTP it if you had to, but your solution sounds better.

Originally Posted by MichaelLAX

Also, I posted a question for Tyler on the VH forum asking why the MP4 files outputted from VH with just video and audio passthru will not open in QuickTime...

Hopefully the Hauppauge team can get that fixed. Would be great to not have to transcode.

[MichaelLAX]

Originally Posted by jbellanca

Yeah, I didn't notice this until you pointed it out. Glad you mentioned it, it never occurred to me to check the output resolution. (I know, I should have.) I didn't try 23.97 in the frame rate box yet. Have you tried setting the size to 1280x720? I'm testing an encode right now with that set and I'll report back. I'll give the 23.97 just to see if I see the same stutter.

[/QUOTE]

It was a tip that Tyler told us on the VisualHub forum (maybe a different post) to use "ntsc-film" in the frame rate box to convert movies telecast at 29.97. But like I said I don't like the results so far.

With that change it automatically stays at 1280x720 with no further settings required, as the AppleTV will accept that aspect ratio for 24fps and maybe 25fps from PAL sources.

Any help you can give me to move the Boot Camp partition over to my Mac Mini would be appreciated. I have to return the new Mac Mini within 15 days. I hope to figure out how to get mine to boot into boot camp - Windows with VNC activated; plus I give it a static IP to be able to access it headless. As I now understand Boot Camp, it will always reboot into the desired operating system that you can select either in Windows XP Boot Camp Control Panel or in the Mac OS System Preferences. So that way I can operate it as either a Mac or Windows headless with VNC. I just can't afford another toy (new Mac Mini) right now after the HD-PVR and the Roku NetFlix Player...

[jbellanca]

OK, so I took a sample file that was at 1280x720 (60 secs, 13.5mbit, 72.3MB) and ran it through VH at the "Go Nuts" setting. In Advanced I set the Size to 1280x720. The output file actually came out at 1280x720 @ 29.97fps (68.9MB). And the quality was great, no stuttering at all.

[MichaelLAX]

Originally Posted by jbellanca

OK, so I took a sample file that was at 1280x720 (60 secs, 13.5mbit, 72.3MB) and ran it through VH at the "Go Nuts" setting. In Advanced I set the Size to 1280x720. The output file actually came out at 1280x720 @ 29.97fps (68.9MB). And the quality was great, no stuttering at all.

Yes, I was not clear: you can go beyond AppleTV specs in the iTunes/AppleTV Tab (I actually have a whole post about that on the VH Forum).

However, someone pointed out to me that iTunes will not sync these files to the ATV. In my case my ATV is "upgraded" with both Perian and ATVFiles. I use ssh or afp to move the file over, and ATVFiles lets me access it the ATV. It may or not play without Perian, but my ATV already has it installed.

[MichaelLAX]

This post seems to answer that the 720p files are 59.94fps; which I think is causing the quicktime problem even if converted to mp4 with no transcoding:


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post14010956

Still awaiting Tyler's reply about this question.

I have also asked Graham Booker (the architect of Perian) to consider .TS H.264 support for future versions.

{EDIT}: On reflection, the 59.94 may not be the problem as I think that QuickTime will open Mastroska (mkv) files with Perian at 59.97 (I have SuperBowl XLII at that rate; I'll go try).

[MichaelLAX]

Originally Posted by jbellanca

You could always FTP it if you had to, but your solution sounds better.

Oh yes, and by the way I figured out how to "activate" a Windows folder for file sharing, so now my My Videos folder is available to me over my home network to all of my computers to access the HD-PVR output...

[MichaelLAX]

UPS picked up my RMA yesterday.

I have upgraded my VMWare Fusion demo from 1.13 to 2.01beta, in response to a user forum suggestion.

I did some Google research on moving the Boot Camp partition over from the borrowed Mac Mini to mine, so maybe I can run Boot Camp and use Parallels v3.0 to run from that partition, too.

Hauppauge Tech Support says no way to turn off CABAC. So it looks like transcoding is our only answer, which is too bad because, of course, it adds a lengthly 2nd step. I forgot you don't have the AppleTV and are not limited to its specs, so VH at 1280x720 Go Nuts is definitely the way to go (you can actually exceed 5,000Mbps by using the bit rate box in Advanced Settings. I've played 9,000 Mbps, 1280x720 AC3 on my AppleTV. I think the Super Bowl sample on my iDisk Public Folder is at these settings. Try it out.

My friend says that his PopcornHour will play the .TS files I had him try, including 1080i.

[MichaelLAX]

Tyler at VisualHub says: "99% of the time, H.264 video in other containers cannot be brought over intact." So container change in VisualHub does not look like an option either. Will be interested to see if Hauppauge gets their MP4 Creator working...

[MichaelLAX]

I finally obtained a 720p sample that used MP4 Creator to convert from the .TS output.

My file analysis program, MediaInfo Mac, reports this file as 60 frames per second.

The following is the hardware used for this discussion:

Mac Mini 1.83 Core2Duo 1Gig RAM

Windows XP run on the Mac Mini with Boot Camp

AppleTV upgraded with Perian and ATVFiles

First the Bad:

The sample file from KavMan (SC.MP4) does not play any audio when played in ArcSoft's Total Extreme Player, as reported by other Windows users.

It will not open in QuickTime on my Mac and of course then, will not play on my AppleTV.

However, the Good:

The output file (SC.Converted.mp4) from VisualHub with both video and audio passthrough in the MP4 Tab (a quick process as no transcoding is done) opens in QuickTime. However, although it looks like it wants to play the file and the audio does play, the video is washed out and stutters in and out.

BUT: when you install Perian v1.1 on the Mac, the SC.Converted.mp4 now plays fine in QuickTime. Hence, we now have a way to play the 720p output files from the HD-PVR on a Macintosh with limited file conversation (MP4 Creator and then VisualHub) and no transcoding.

The Ugly:

On the AppleTV, Perian does allow the file to play, but it stutters and ultimately chokes the AppleTV. So far, no way to play the output of the HD-PVR on the AppleTV without transcoding in either VisualHub or Elgato's Turbo.264 hardware stick

Now, the Surprise:

QuickTime Pro on a Mac with Perian installed will edit the file!

I took SC.Converted.mp4 and made 3 commercial-type edits and one trim at the end. However, QuickTime saves as MOV and I named the resulting edited file, SC.Cut.MOV. When I attempted to play this file back in QuickTime with Perian, the video froze at the point of the first edit. I don't have time tonight to experiment with different ways to save after the edit.

Back in Windows, in ArcSoft Total Extreme, when I attempt to play SC.Cut.mov, it requested that QuickTime 6 be installed. I did install QuickTime for Windows (however it is now v7.5), but when I attempted to play either SC.Cut.mov, there was audio but no video, since there is no Windows version of Perian to update QuickTime.

Some more experimentation is needed but this is a good start.

Here are the reports on each file from MediaInfo Mac:

SC.mp4:

*** MediaInfo Mac // Plain text file report
2008-06-15 00:44:10 -0700
Information for File: sc.mp4

General / Container Stream # 1
Total Video Streams for this File -> 1
Total Audio Streams for this File -> 1
Video Codecs Used -> AVC
Audio Codecs Used -> AAC LC
File Format -> MPEG-4
Play Time -> 59s 633ms
Total File Size -> 96.8 MiB
Total Stream BitRate -> 13.6 Mbps
Video Stream # 1
Codec -> AVC
Codec (Human Name) -> Advanced Video Codec
Codec (Container Code) -> avc1
Codec Profile -> Main@L4.0
Frame Width -> 1280 pixels
Frame Height -> 720 pixels
Frame Rate -> 60.000 fps
Total Frames -> 3578
Display Aspect Ratio -> 16/9
Interlacement -> Progressive
Codec Settings (Summary) -> CABAC / 4 Ref Frames
QF (like Gordian Knot) -> 0.244
Codec Settings (CABAC) -> Yes
Video Stream Length -> 59s 633ms
Video Stream BitRate -> 13.5 Mbps
Video Stream BitRate Mode -> VBR
Video Stream Size -> 95.9 MiB
Date of Original Encoding -> UTC 2008-06-13 22:50:32
Audio Stream # 1
Codec -> A_AAC/MPEG4/LC
Codec (Human Name) -> AAC Low Complexity
Codec (Container Code) -> 67
Audio Stream Length -> 59s 626ms
Audio Stream BitRate -> 128 Kbps
Audio Stream BitRate Mode -> VBR
Number of Audio Channels -> 2
Audio Channel's Positions -> L R
Sampling Rate -> 48.0 KHz
Bit Depth -> 16 bits
Audio Stream Size -> 931 KiB
Date of Original Encoding -> UTC 2008-06-13 22:50:36
___________________________________________________

SC.converted.mp4:

*** MediaInfo Mac // Plain text file report
2008-06-15 00:44:33 -0700
Information for File: sc.converted.mp4

General / Container Stream # 1
Total Video Streams for this File -> 1
Total Audio Streams for this File -> 1
Video Codecs Used -> AVC
Audio Codecs Used -> AAC LC
File Format -> MPEG-4
Play Time -> 59s 626ms
Total File Size -> 96.8 MiB
Total Stream BitRate -> 13.6 Mbps
Video Stream # 1
Codec -> AVC
Codec (Human Name) -> Advanced Video Codec
Codec (Container Code) -> avc1
Codec Profile -> Main@L4.0
Frame Width -> 1280 pixels
Frame Height -> 720 pixels
Frame Rate -> 60.000 fps
Total Frames -> 3577
Display Aspect Ratio -> 16/9
Interlacement -> Progressive
Codec Settings (Summary) -> CABAC / 4 Ref Frames
QF (like Gordian Knot) -> 0.244
Codec Settings (CABAC) -> Yes
Video Stream Length -> 59s 616ms
Video Stream BitRate -> 13.5 Mbps
Video Stream BitRate Mode -> VBR
Video Stream Size -> 95.9 MiB
Date of Original Encoding -> UTC 2008-06-15 05:10:25
Audio Stream # 1
Codec -> A_AAC/MPEG4/LC
Codec (Human Name) -> AAC Low Complexity
Codec (Container Code) -> 40
Audio Stream Length -> 59s 626ms
Audio Stream BitRate -> 128 Kbps
Audio Stream BitRate Mode -> VBR
Number of Audio Channels -> 2
Audio Channel's Positions -> L R
Sampling Rate -> 48.0 KHz
Bit Depth -> 16 bits
Audio Stream Size -> 931 KiB
Date of Original Encoding -> UTC 2008-06-15 05:10:25
__________________________________________________

SC.cut.mov:

*** MediaInfo Mac // Plain text file report
2008-06-15 00:44:56 -0700
Information for File: sc.cut.mov

General / Container Stream # 1
Total Video Streams for this File -> 1
Total Audio Streams for this File -> 1
Video Codecs Used -> AVC
Audio Codecs Used -> AAC LC
File Format -> QuickTime
Play Time -> 54s 116ms
Total File Size -> 87.7 MiB
Total Stream BitRate -> 13.6 Mbps
Video Stream # 1
Codec -> AVC
Codec (Human Name) -> Advanced Video Codec
Codec (Container Code) -> avc1
Codec Profile -> Main@L4.0
Frame Width -> 1280 pixels
Frame Height -> 720 pixels
Frame Rate -> 60.000 fps
Total Frames -> 3247
Display Aspect Ratio -> 16/9
Interlacement -> Progressive
Codec Settings (Summary) -> CABAC / 4 Ref Frames
QF (like Gordian Knot) -> 0.244
Codec Settings (CABAC) -> Yes
Video Stream Length -> 54s 116ms
Video Stream BitRate -> 13.5 Mbps
Video Stream BitRate Mode -> VBR
Video Stream Size -> 87.1 MiB
Date of Original Encoding -> UTC 2008-06-15 05:10:25
Audio Stream # 1
Codec -> A_AAC/MPEG4/LC
Codec (Human Name) -> AAC Low Complexity
Codec (Container Code) -> 40
Audio Stream Length -> 32s 981ms
Audio Stream BitRate -> 128 Kbps
Audio Stream BitRate Mode -> VBR
Number of Audio Channels -> 2
Audio Channel's Positions -> L R
Sampling Rate -> 48.0 KHz
Bit Depth -> 16 bits
Audio Stream Size -> 515 KiB
Date of Original Encoding -> UTC 2008-06-15 05:10:25

[Paranoid666au]

Finally got my HD PVR the other day. Been messing around trying to get this thing to work. My main problem has been getting mp4 creator to work, it just wont open any of my HD PVR recordings.

Anyway regarding the Mac stuff I did get the Arcsoft Total Media Extreme to run on Virtualbox, running Windows XP. http://www.virtualbox.org/ Virtualbox is an open source virtual machine by Sun Microsystems, it's a nice alternative to VM Ware or Parallels. I successful used it to capture with the HD PVR to an external NTSF drive.

The thing with Virtualbox is that USB doesn't seem to be activated by default, so you have to go into the settings and enable it. You can also assign USB Device Filters so it atomically attaches USB devices to the guest OS.

The only problem is was with SageTV. It installed fine but becuase there's no sound it failed to connect to the HD PVR. But audio was disabled, so I'll have to enable it and see what happens.

Oh and I'm Leopard 10.5.4
1.83 GHz iMac
1.5GB RAM