Analog to Digital Cable Switch

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by briands

Of course forcing people to use an STB at each TV location eliminates one of the benefits that cable has over satellite. I can see a lot of people investigating alternatives if the cable co tries to shove STBs down their throat.

I agree. Satellite starts looking more attractive, although then you're still stuck looking for Internet service. FiOS certainly looks even more attractive though.

I think it's unlikely, but hopefully mikesm is right and Comcast is seriously considering putting expanded basic channels out on clear QAM.

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by briands

Of course forcing people to use an STB at each TV location eliminates one of the benefits that cable has over satellite. I can see a lot of people investigating alternatives if the cable co tries to shove STBs down their throat.

I guess it depends on how much those people like TV. If the cable companies make a lot of channels available in the clear it would just be a matter of buying a new TV. But if you didn't want to do that and you didn't want an STB you'd basically be screwed. Because even if you went the OTA route with an old TV you'd need a tuner box just to get those.

Cox cable here in OKC mainly has only the locals in the clear. Kind of funny what they do carry in the clear: locals, shopping channels and WGN. The rest is all encrypted. I wonder when Cox is going to reorganize their channel line-up? Right now all the HD channels are in the 700's. But as they start making the HD versions of the channels available it kind of makes the SD ones pointless. Particularly as time goes on and more people actually have HDTV's.

I don't believe the cable companies really care whether they carry stuff encrypted or not. They're just the middleman. It's probably the deals they sign with the various networks that determines how they carry them. Or maybe the decided beforehand that they'd encrypt everything except locals so it doesn't become a contractual issue. It really blows though. On Cox Sci-Fi is one of the Extended Basic channels in analog but the HD counterpart that they just started airing is encrypted.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

If the cable companies make a lot of channels available in the clear it would just be a matter of buying a new TV.

I think it's highly unlikely cable companies will make extensive use of unencrypted QAM channels. Maybe they'll use filters instead of encryption, but I doubt it.

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

I don't believe the cable companies really care whether they carry stuff encrypted or not. They're just the middleman.

I think you're partially right. The cable networks care about subscribers, since they almost always get $x per subscriber from the cable company. But, certainly the cable companies make quite a bit more profit from expanded basic subscribers compared to the basic cable subscribers. I doubt very many of the networks have agreements with the cable companies that say encryption must be used, but I think that could change quickly if people with Comcast internet are able to get TNT-HD for free.

[davi323]

They might just be trying to eliminate what would otherwise be an incredible headache. If, after the switch, they made everyone get a box, that's hardware they would have to then have supply. That many people demanding boxes all at the same time is certainly going to cause long shortages, which is going to anger customers, which is going to get them to consider switching to DTV or Dish. By leaving the expanded basic stuff as unencrypted QAM, they don't need to provide more hardware to those customers, saving them the nightmare of having to supply a box to all of their customers.

[Djc208]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

On Cox Sci-Fi is one of the Extended Basic channels in analog but the HD counterpart that they just started airing is encrypted.

You get sci-fi HD on COX? Maybe that means we'll be getting it soon too

I love how they keep trying to say "our HD channels are free". Sure with digital cable, which is at minimum a $7/month upgrade for just the useless music channels plus box/cable card rental fees. At least their linup is getting better.

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by Djc208

You get sci-fi HD on COX? Maybe that means we'll be getting it soon too

I love how they keep trying to say "our HD channels are free". Sure with digital cable, which is at minimum a $7/month upgrade for just the useless music channels plus box/cable card rental fees. At least their linup is getting better.

I was a little off. SciFi HD showed up on the SageTV line-up. It doesn't start airing till tomorrow along with all the touchy fealy Lifetime channels and USA. It's time to trade out my STB for an HD capable one and start saving my pennies for an HD-PVR.

Technically, if you already are subscribed to digital cable TV then, yes, HD is free. All you have to do is go to one of their locations and exchange your box. But if all you have is basic or extended basic cable then you'll have to upgrade your service. In that case I'd hope it would be expected as the only channels you'd be getting with a built-in QAM tuner are mainly the locals. I can actually confirm that the free HD is true. My boss' mother-in-law just got an HDTV and he called me up to ask about it. They just walked into one of the Cox offices and exchanged the box.

I think I'm going to do that some time this week. Even though it will only be in still be in SD until I get an HD-PVR it would be nice to be able to record the HD version of SciFi. It should be better quality than recording the SD feed.

[valnar]

Originally Posted by ke6guj

+1.

The sale of some of the spectrum is gonna bring in tens of billions of dollars, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/700_Mhz...ectrum_auction . Setting aside around $1B for converter coupons isn't gonna bankrupt .gov.

That coupon program is neccessary. Can you image the firestorm that would occur when they turn off analog and all the low/fixed-income peoples TVs stop working. And to top it off, to hear that .gov made money on the deal that broke their TVs?

At the moment, I think all low (and middle) income families can give two hoots about the $40 coupon compared to the gasoline issue.

'Just to put things in perspective.

-Robert

[Keith]

I hate to say it but I got tired of the whole QAM mess - and trying to find tuner cards that would even work. That and the Comcast DVR gives a better picture on my 50" HD Sony than the Sage box does on analog channels so now it's relegated to being an expensive lossless WMA jukebox. I really loved using Sage as my DVR butI think ulness a law can be passed *requiring* non-premium channels to be unencrypted on QAM I think it's days of usefulness are behind - speaking only for myself. It's sad. Sage is the best DVR engine I've ever used. I have the system listed on craigslist and have yet to have any bites...

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by Keith

I hate to say it but I got tired of the whole QAM mess - and trying to find tuner cards that would even work. That and the Comcast DVR gives a better picture on my 50" HD Sony than the Sage box does on analog channels so now it's relegated to being an expensive lossless WMA jukebox. I really loved using Sage as my DVR butI think ulness a law can be passed *requiring* non-premium channels to be unencrypted on QAM I think it's days of usefulness are behind - speaking only for myself. It's sad. Sage is the best DVR engine I've ever used. I have the system listed on craigslist and have yet to have any bites...

While I tend to agree with you on some points like I believe it's kind of obnoxious that many cable companies are encrypting nearly everything so that you require an STB or at the very least CableCard in order to receive even basic cable in digital. Although I don't believe we have really gotten that far yet since most people are still relying on analog cable. So I don't think we're quite there yet since we most cable companies are still running both diginal and analog concurrently.

I don't believe it makes SageTV's usefulness any less though. Sure, it may be more expensive but there are other ways you can record encrypted QAM. The only downside is that they are not lossless exploiting the analog hole to record those channels. I currently do that with my cable STB. I capture the S-vid out into my PVR150. Certainly it doesn't look as good as natively recorded but it looks quite a bit better than pulling the same analog channels using the PVR150's tuner.

So not all is lost quite yet. As long as there are the will and the means there will be a way. DIY DVR's can be time and money consuming and some people don't seem to have the will to do it. But I believe the rewards for rolling your own DVR are greater than being limited into the cable company's offering.

[Keith]

I agree about the cable companies being obnoxious. From a stricly business perspective I can't blame them, it does drive revenue and they have a right to make money. No doubt it helps cut down on theft-of-service.

On the other hand, I think the greedy b@st@rds make enough profits as it is and I believe that everything but premium channels should be unencrypted.

Having said that, the quality of the picture with their DVR, even on analog channels, blows my Sage setup out of the water.

I'd love to be able to get that quality with my Sage box.

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by Keith

I agree about the cable companies being obnoxious. From a stricly business perspective I can't blame them, it does drive revenue and they have a right to make money. No doubt it helps cut down on theft-of-service.

On the other hand, I think the greedy b@st@rds make enough profits as it is and I believe that everything but premium channels should be unencrypted.

Having said that, the quality of the picture with their DVR, even on analog channels, blows my Sage setup out of the water.

I'd love to be able to get that quality with my Sage box.

And the reason for that is that it's directly recording the unencrypted QAM signal it's receiving from the cable company.

They way I do it the cable box decrypts the signal, converts it to analog, then my SageTV box re-compresses it to MPEG2. So there's going to be some loss in there. But as I said it's definitely better than using the capture card's built-in analog tuner. I've never been very impressed with the picture clarity of the TIB's used on tuner cards.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

They way I do it the cable box decrypts the signal, converts it to analog, then my SageTV box re-compresses it to MPEG2. So there's going to be some loss in there. But as I said it's definitely better than using the capture card's built-in analog tuner. I've never been very impressed with the picture clarity of the TIB's used on tuner cards.

If you have a cable box already why not let it do the recording? Why bother with both? I never could understand that.

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by Keith

If you have a cable box already why not let it do the recording? Why bother with both? I never could understand that.

Because it's not a DVR. Not all set top boxes are DVR's. It's just a digital tuner.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

Because it's not a DVR. Not all set top boxes are DVR's. It's just a digital tuner.

OK, that makes sense. I got tired of the hassle and bit the bullet and paid for a STB with built in HD DVR.

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by Keith

OK, that makes sense. I got tired of the hassle and bit the bullet and paid for a STB with built in HD DVR.

I just don't see myself doing that any time soon. While that certainly would be the easy way to go Cox's DVR just doesn't float my boat. My parents have the SD version and the usability is just horrid to me. But they seem to enjoy it. I personally prefer the flexibility I have with my SageTV box.

I'm currently in the process of converting many of my DVD's, and some BD's, so that I can play them back at the touch of a button. I just wouldn't enjoy losing that kind of functionality. Having both TV recording and multimedia collection playback all in one is just too dang convenient. Cox Cable is going to have to pull SageTV from my dead lifeless hands before I'll succumb to renting one of their POS DVR's.

[paulbeers]

Originally Posted by Keith

If you have a cable box already why not let it do the recording? Why bother with both? I never could understand that.

If all you want is a PVR for one tv with no other functions, then I tell anyone just to go with their Cable Co's DVR.....for those of us who want a 6 tuner centralized recorder that can share the same recordings to multiple locations in the house....then Sage is the only way to go...

oh and one touch DVD playback w/o needing the disk....

Music playback....

online content....

just to name a few!