Potential to make many people happy... "My Movies" for SageTV?

[stanger89]

FWIW,

MyMovies can be installed on plane-jane XP and you can play with it's "Collection Management" app, which as near as I can tell, is basically what we'd gain access to if an API were given. From what little I can tell, it seems basically like a more limited version of DVD Profiler.

Those who are in "discussions" with Brian, do you know, or could you find out what the API would provide access to? From what I've seen of the Collection Managment app, it doesn't look like it would do a whole lot of good (unless DVD Profiler dies).

[PGPfan]

Stanger,

I'm not sure I follow your 'more limited version of DVD Profiler' comment. For one thing, MM does handle series/boxsets which if I'm not mistaken is something that DVD Profiler can't do.

Perhaps you mean that the database is smaller, (ie, not as accurate) but if one were to include Sage in using their db, it can't help but grow larger and more accurate.

Maybe I'm don't understand this correctly, but it seems that MM is a much more elegant implementation of a movie management/viewing application than what we now have possible with DVD Profiler. To me, if all a developer did was to duplicate the UI/featureset of the existing MM it would be an improvement on what we have now.

[gplasky]

I'm on the same page as PGPfan. MM is being actively developed. DVD Profiler hasn't changed in a year. Ivelos is in lawsuit jail as far as I can tell. I thought I saw a beta version of MM that was actually able to use a webcam to scan the barcode into the app.

Stanger-I think you're missing some of the beauty of the app if all you're using is the collection app. The UI as it sits does more than anything Sage has access to currently. If all anyone did was duplicate these features they would have a hit on their hands. Built into MM is the abilty to use TheaterTek as it's player. I know Sage can do this also but I consider it a bonus. Another way to run a player.

If someone could just commit to this. No need to establish a time frame for this to happen. It may take awhile but I think various people (including myself) could help with the STVI. Let's not let this get away just because of we may not have the time. It will take a while but let's make the time.

Gerry

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by PGPfan

Stanger,

I'm not sure I follow your 'more limited version of DVD Profiler' comment. For one thing, MM does handle series/boxsets which if I'm not mistaken is something that DVD Profiler can't do.

Remember, I'm talking just about the database, like I said they're very similar, but DVD Profiler seems more "complete" (data item wise).

Oh, and they both have boxset capability, and it works very similarly in both.

Perhaps you mean that the database is smaller, (ie, not as accurate) but if one were to include Sage in using their db, it can't help but grow larger and more accurate.

I haven't really had a chance to compare accuracy, since I haven't felt like signing up for a MM account yet.

Maybe I'm don't understand this correctly, but it seems that MM is a much more elegant implementation of a movie management/viewing application...

It is, I'm sure, more elegant than what we have now in Sage...

...than what we now have possible with DVD Profiler.

But that's not due to limitations in DVD Profiler's data, it's due to, primarilly, limitations in the Sage "plugins".

To me, if all a developer did was to duplicate the UI/featureset of the existing MM it would be an improvement on what we have now.

And that's basically the point I was trying to make, gaining access to the MyMovies database in Sage would be about 1% of what's needed. 99% of what make MM what it is, is the UI and logic, not the database.

Originally Posted by gplasky

I'm on the same page as PGPfan. MM is being actively developed. DVD Profiler hasn't changed in a year. Ivelos is in lawsuit jail as far as I can tell. I thought I saw a beta version of MM that was actually able to use a webcam to scan the barcode into the app.

Please, please understand, I'm not trying to say anything negative about MyMovies. But I see a lot of people's hopes pinned on gaining access to the database when that in and of itself would do little good (speaking strictly from an available data POV).

The DVD Profiler situation does look bad though, I'm not sure how bad, but MyMovies database would probably be my first choice to replace DVD Profiler, being that they're so close. But at the same time, if I had to choose between the two, I'd pick DVD Profiler based on maturity of the app and database.

Again, that is just speaking about the database, not the front end.

Stanger-I think you're missing some of the beauty of the app if all you're using is the collection app. The UI as it sits does more than anything Sage has access to currently.

I don't disagree.

If all anyone did was duplicate these features they would have a hit on their hands.

I agree, my point though is simply gaining access to the MM database won't really help get those features into Sage. It appears (hopefully someone can confirm/refute this) that the smarts are in the GUI, not the database.

Built into MM is the abilty to use TheaterTek as it's player. I know Sage can do this also but I consider it a bonus. Another way to run a player.

If someone could just commit to this. No need to establish a time frame for this to happen. It may take awhile but I think various people (including myself) could help with the STVI. Let's not let this get away just because of we may not have the time. It will take a while but let's make the time.

I'd love to see this in Sage, in fact, I'd love to see more than this in Sage, and I'd love to do it, but I don't want to commit, and with my current workload and summer upon us (almost) not sure I'll have or be willing to devote the time to it.

But here, in a nutshell, is my entire "argument" about MyMovies "in" Sage:

We have everything we need, right now, with DVD Profiler and Studio to match or exceed MyMovies, featureset wise. I would consider the MyMovies database a replacement for DVD Profiler in the event of it's death, or perhaps an alternative to DVD Profiler (like IMDB sorta).

If we/you really want to see something happen, please take a look at the thread I linked, we really need a plan to do this, MM is a pretty big undertaking.

[PGPfan]

FWIW, I've never had any luck with boxsets in DVD Profiler. For example, I have the original StarTrek boxsets (3 seasons/boxes - plastic 60's sci-fi looking cases) and these aren't listed at all on DVD Profiler, not even when you scan the barcodes in.

I'll certainly check out link you posted. I guess I'm just confused as to why (if we really do have the ability with Studio) we've never had anything close to what MM provides? I'm not be-littleing the awesome work you've done on this Stanger, it just seems that 'featureset wise' MM makes an obvious template to clone and then extend - assuming it can be done. Many folks have been crying for this capability.

-PGPfan

[vvulture]

Ok.

I think there is some confusion here. Correct me if i am wrong.
Firstly, there are 2 databases so to speak with MM. One is on your hard drive of your entire collection, and the other is the web service which Brian speaks of, which is used to import titles into your ( local ) database.
However, the web service does not have to be used. You can create a title from scratch using custom images and descriptions if you wish.

Stanger89, what did you mean by :

I haven't really had a chance to compare accuracy, since I haven't felt like signing up for a MM account yet.

What account are you talking about ? There is ( as far as i know ) no such thing. You install the app on your PC and away you go.

Maybe DVDProfiler's database is more accurate and complete, but realistically do you really need all the info ?
Here is what i think Sage needs to access ( minimum ) :
- Location where DVD or Media file is stored ie: c:\my dvds\Matrix\VIDEO_TS\
- Name of DVD or Media file
- Image location

Anything else is a bonus.

cheers

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by PGPfan

FWIW, I've never had any luck with boxsets in DVD Profiler. For example, I have the original StarTrek boxsets (3 seasons/boxes - plastic 60's sci-fi looking cases) and these aren't listed at all on DVD Profiler, not even when you scan the barcodes in.

It's definitely not perfect (this is one thing that was hopefully going to improve in 3.0), does MyMovies handle them better? It seems to me the basic mechanism is the same, a parent profile with child profiles added via a "link" of sorts.

FWIW, you could just scan the barcode for the container, create that as a "parent" profile, then create a disc-ID based profile for each disc in the set and add them as box-set contents to the parent.

I'll certainly check out link you posted. I guess I'm just confused as to why (if we really do have the ability with Studio) we've never had anything close to what MM provides?

For my part, mainly because I ran out of time/interest/patience/something. I've got rough ideas in my head on how to do most of the things listed in the other thread, just haven't taken the time to implement them.

I'm not be-littleing the awesome work you've done on this Stanger,

Of course, I agree.

it just seems that 'featureset wise' MM makes an obvious template to clone and then extend - assuming it can be done. Many folks have been crying for this capability.

I'll just put it this way, from my perspective, it isn't lack of data that's holding any development up.

One thing that makes life a bit easier for Brian with MM is that MCE doesn't really (as far as I know) have a database of it's own that MM as to integrate with. On the Sage side, Sage already has a great database, that's both a blessing and a curse (some things are easier, some things are probably harder).

Originally Posted by vvulture

Ok.

I think there is some confusion here. Correct me if i am wrong.
Firstly, there are 2 databases so to speak with MM. One is on your hard drive of your entire collection, and the other is the web service which Brian speaks of, which is used to import titles into your ( local ) database.

However, the web service does not have to be used. You can create a title from scratch using custom images and descriptions if you wish.

Same with DVD Profiler (and I'm not trying to turn this into a MyMovies vs DVD Profiler debate).

Stanger89, what did you mean by :

Quote:
I haven't really had a chance to compare accuracy, since I haven't felt like signing up for a MM account yet.
What account are you talking about ? There is ( as far as i know ) no such thing. You install the app on your PC and away you go.

Yeah, but from what I've seen, if you want to download profiles from the web service, you have to create an account (free I assume).

I did import my DVD Profiler DB into MyMovies so I could look at the Collection Manager part, and that is where my comments come from.

Maybe DVDProfiler's database is more accurate and complete, but realistically do you really need all the info ?

To really do it right, I think you need:

• Title
• Coverart
• Genre(s)
• Rating
• Cast (including actor/character pairs)
• Description
• Box set contets

And ideally, things like:

• Languages
• Audio Types
• Aspect Ratio
• Extras (sorta)
• etc

Here is what i think Sage needs to access ( minimum ) :
- Location where DVD or Media file is stored ie: c:\my dvds\Matrix\VIDEO_TS\
- Name of DVD or Media file
- Image location

That's already default in Sage. Just add the directory with your movies and Sage automatially extracts the name from the filename/path and loads thumbnails. They have to be in the correct place though (the thumbnails).

The current state of SageMC and DVD Profiler integration is already beyond that (importing description, genres, cast, rating, etc).

The part that's really missing at the moment is a nice, polished interface for browing all the imported movies and making optimal use of the metadata available.

Just to summarize:
I think MyMovies is a good target to shoot for....
I don't think access to the MyMovies API will "magically" make that happen...
I think everything necessary is present already, all that's needed is someone(s) with the motivation necessary to do it....
I think the MyMovies API is worth pursuing if for no other reason than a "fallback" for the disappearance of DVD Profiler.

[derelicte1]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Yeah, but from what I've seen, if you want to download profiles from the web service, you have to create an account (free I assume).

you only need an account if you want to add a title to the database.

Another great feature about my movies is it can pull data from a variety of different sources. If a title isn't found in the my movies web service, you can tell it to search imdb, amazon, and a few others. Very handy.

[dblaine2]

Originally Posted by stanger89

The part that's really missing at the moment is a nice, polished interface for browing all the imported movies and making optimal use of the metadata available.

Exactly. I think all the pieces are there to do this right within Sage. But I also think that this should be a core function. This is a perfect way for Sage to gain a user base (and thereby market share).

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by derelicte1

you only need an account if you want to add a title to the database.

Another great feature about my movies is it can pull data from a variety of different sources. If a title isn't found in the my movies web service, you can tell it to search imdb, amazon, and a few others. Very handy.

Hm, I was trying to update a couple of my profiles from the web service and it kept asking me to log in.

[stanger89]

Well DVD Profiler is back

We apologize for the site access issues that you may have experienced recently, affecting both our website and portions of DVD Profiler funcionality.

The downtime was a result of a legal dispute between some members of InterVocative Software and Invelos Software. We're happy to report that the issue has been permanently resolved to the satisfaction of both companies. As of the closing of this agreement, InterVocative Software becomes a wholly owned subsidiary of Invelos Software, Inc.

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Well DVD Profiler is back

Good news indeed! I think that decreases the urgency of getting the MM backend implemented, but I think the main thing people wanted was an MM like slick UI. SageMC is so much better than the ugly default STV, but it is still way behind MM in how it integrates metadata and just plain good looks.

I wish the Sage folks would dump the default UI and put all their support in upgrading SageMC to be a very polished interface. But I know I am in the minority on this. :-)

Thanks,
Mike

[JUC]

ummm...

I just upgraded to 3.0. I have been/am using the free version. For some reason it is saying that since i am not a registerred user (ie. have to pay) i cannot export the database? This means I can not longer export my collection.xml file!?! Am I missing something? Never had this issue with the previous version I was using v2.4

[dflachbart]

Originally Posted by JUC

ummm...

I just upgraded to 3.0. I have been/am using the free version. For some reason it is saying that since i am not a registerred user (ie. have to pay) i cannot export the database? This means I can not longer export my collection.xml file!?! Am I missing something? Never had this issue with the previous version I was using v2.4

No, you are not missing anything. 3.0 does not allow to export your collection if you have more than 50 DVDs in there, unless you buy the full version. That's why I stay with 2.4 ...

Dirk

[PGPfan]

Unfortunately JUC, that is one of the things that they changed in v3.x.

The only way to get collection.xml is by using the old free version, or paying the man.

-PGPfan

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by flachbar

No, you are not missing anything. 3.0 does not allow to export your collection if you have more than 50 DVDs in there, unless you buy the full version. That's why I stay with 2.4 ...

Dirk

Unfortunately, the community appears to have already moved to 3.0 so the 2.4 version is behind. It will be interesting to see how that shakes out since IVS is now a part of Invelos and they're combining the databases.

I don't know, I'm registering, it's well worth the registration fee IMO.

[JUC]

2.4 it is then...

[vvulture]

I'm not trying to be rude here guys, but this thread wasn't intended to be a My Movies vs DVD Profiler thing...

Personally, i don't like DVD profiler for reasons i don't want to get into.
What i was trying to achieve is perhaps getting the attention of someone who would be willing to get MM working with SageMC in colaboration with Brian Binnerup..

DVDProfiler isn't an issue here.. if you want to use it, thats fine. But many others don't want to use it.
This whole thread is going on a tangent at the moment.. can we stay on track ??

thank you..

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by vvulture

I'm not trying to be rude here guys, but this thread wasn't intended to be a My Movies vs DVD Profiler thing...

And that was not my intention either, in fact, I don't really see them as a vs thing or mutually exclusive.

Personally, i don't like DVD profiler for reasons i don't want to get into.
What i was trying to achieve is perhaps getting the attention of someone who would be willing to get MM working with SageMC in colaboration with Brian Binnerup..

My point was that (unless I'm missing something significant) gaining access to the MyMovies database/webservice wouldn't in and of itself do any good. Neither is the current access we have (with IMDB/DVD Profiler) holding anything back in regards to implementing MyMovies type functionality.

Unless the proposed MyMovies API does more than just provide access to the data, it's not (again, in and of itself) going to change anything. The only way it would make much difference is if it provided a robust set of searching/filtering/grouping capabilities.

Even if that is the case, that adds it's own complications (where data is stored Sage vs MyMovies, where the displayed list comes from, etc.)

[vvulture]

Ok.
The only way you would be able to see the advantages of MM, is by installing MCE and MM. Start MCE and have a play with the MM interface. That, is what i would like to see in Sage.

What i like about MM is :

- Able to make add and delete Genres & Categories. I could not find a way in DVD Profiler to do this.

- Not only catalog DVD's, but also mpg's, avi's and so on.

- You install it, and it works.

- You can tell MM where the files are stored.

There is no messing around with MCE at all... You install MM, and it works.. end of story.
With Sage however, it's a pain. You have to tell it where your collection.xml is, where DVD profiler is located and so on. And from what i could tell, you are stuck with whatever categories DVD profiler gives you.
On top of that, you then have to scan this and update that...

It took me 3 days to work out how to get a DVD to work in Sage. Not very user friendly if you ask me.

My Movies for Sage would be able to eliminate all the guess work and frustration that comes with setting up a DVD or Media collection.

Anyway, life goes on..