Congrats on the HD media extender and Sage Server system

[paulbeers]

Originally Posted by Kirby

Ahh but you forgot about the 'other' big convention in Vegas being held at the same time!

No doubt, if I was in Vegas this week, it wouldn't be for CES!!!!

[Kirby]

Originally Posted by paulbeers

No doubt, if I was in Vegas this week, it wouldn't be for CES!!!!

Unless it was to grab a camera!

[MeInMaui]

Originally Posted by Kirby

Ahh but you forgot about the 'other' big convention in Vegas being held at the same time!

You mean the IEEE convention? I'm sorry I missed that one.

[Kirby]

Originally Posted by MeInMaui

You mean the IEEE convention? I'm sorry I missed that one.

Not quite!

[jpporter]

I guess I'm the only network nerd here, if you look at the picture of the back of the box, you can see a MAC address of 0006DC414986. A lookup of that MAC address at: http://www.coffer.com/mac_find/?string=0006DC reports that the manufacturer is Syabas Technology.

Here is their website: http://www.syabas.com/solution.html

They appear to be an OEM to OEMs. The two Snazio boxes look to be variations of Syabas's Digital Media Player and Network DVD Player. SageTV may be going directly to them for the hardware? If they are going through Syabas, the actual hardware SageTV ends up selling may be a little different then what was displayed at CES. (Syabas's current hardware: http://www.syabas.com/download/Digit...cification.pdf)

[dagar]

Nah not the only one.

Networks uber alles!

[paulbeers]

Originally Posted by jpporter

I guess I'm the only network nerd here, if you look at the picture of the back of the box, you can see a MAC address of 0006DC414986. A lookup of that MAC address at: http://www.coffer.com/mac_find/?string=0006DC reports that the manufacturer is Syabas Technology.

Here is their website: http://www.syabas.com/solution.html

They appear to be an OEM to OEMs. The two Snazio boxes look to be variations of Syabas's Digital Media Player and Network DVD Player. SageTV may be going directly to them for the hardware? If they are going through Syabas, the actual hardware SageTV ends up selling may be a little different then what was displayed at CES. (Syabas's current hardware: http://www.syabas.com/download/Digit...cification.pdf)

Maybe it is some kind of conspiracy to charge us more by starting off with a Syabas machine, that is then bought by Snazio and altered by them, and then Sage buys from Snazio and again alters them....so that what starts out as a device that costs 10 dollars to manufacture, ends up being like 300. Ohhhhh and lets not forget all the distributers that would also need their cut in order to supply the Syabus machine to Snazio and Snazio to Sage. Let the conspiracy theories begin!

[Opus4]

This is where I like to see conversations heading -- complaints and rants about licenses and extender details before SageTV has even finished the product. That always adds enjoyment to any conversation.

Anyway.... there are only a couple details that I can mention at the moment:

1) The extender licenses already in use on your Windows installations of SageTV will continue to work with the upcoming HD extenders.

2) Do not rush out to buy any extender right now with the assumption that it will work with SageTV when the SageTV HD extenders are complete and ready for release. Wait for SageTV to release their HD extenders before buying one, regardless of how similar any device may appear. If you buy something now, don't complain that it doesn't work with SageTV later.

The prototypes shown at CES are not ready for release right now, so please allow time for the products to be completed before full details of capabilities and so on are made public. As is usually the case, SageTV will provide further details later on, when the product is ready for release. As many of you should be aware, details can change as development proceeds, so there is no point specifying exact features at this early time.

- Andy

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by Opus4

This is where I like to see conversations heading -- complaints and rants about licenses and extender details before SageTV has even finished the product. That always adds enjoyment to any conversation.

Anyway.... there are only a couple details that I can mention at the moment:

1) The extender licenses already in use on your Windows installations of SageTV will continue to work with the upcoming HD extenders.

2) Do not rush out to buy any extender right now with the assumption that it will work with SageTV when the SageTV HD extenders are complete and ready for release. Wait for SageTV to release their HD extenders before buying one, regardless of how similar any device may appear. If you buy something now, don't complain that it doesn't work with SageTV later.

The prototypes shown at CES are not ready for release right now, so please allow time for the products to be completed before full details of capabilities and so on are made public. As is usually the case, SageTV will provide further details later on, when the product is ready for release. As many of you should be aware, details can change as development proceeds, so there is no point specifying exact features at this early time.

- Andy

This is good advice and consistent with what I was told at CES and have posted here. The device clearly wasn't production hardware (it needed branding and other outside work at a minimum before being ready to ship).

While it looked reasonably good, there were a few things that needed some work. For example, when you turned it off via remote, the sage logo popped up - so the system didn't look to power down at all, which from an energy management perspective is a little troublesome. Booting from power cycle took 30+ secs, so not what you want to do everytime.

Also, I did get it to crash once trying to play an audio track, so there is some work that needs to be done on the non-tv elements still.

However, this was encouraging enough to me to put off buying a couple mac mini's to use as HD clients. So barring any new data, I'll be patient and wait for the final product.

I for one am very glad they showed it in this preliminary state - it demo'd good functgionality, and has saved me time and money by avoiding buying PC based clients.

However, since the product details haven't quite been finished yet, maybe we can give the Sage guys some feedback on some things they might want to change or provide optionality for.

Some things to start off with:

1) HDMI vs DVI. HDMI is neater cabling, but DVI to HDMI conversion is cheap, and even if audio was routed via HDMI, we'd still want seperate audio outputs.

2) Output resolution switching vs locked. If we are outputting 720p for example, and have it locked (presumably the native display resolution), then the extender does the scaling. But if the output floats based on source material, the TV does the scaling. This could be interesting, but has some side effects based on resync times for the various displays, and other issues. Do people here have feelings one way or another?

3) 1080p support - not for decoding 1080p material per se, but for locking to the native resolution of many TV's.

4) USB support - could this be used to support an XBOX HD-DVD drive, content on USB flash drives? Firmware uploading? Etc...

Thanks everyone!

Mike

[Kirby]

Originally Posted by mikesm

While it looked reasonably good, there were a few things that needed some work. For example, when you turned it off via remote, the sage logo popped up - so the system didn't look to power down at all, which from an energy management perspective is a little troublesome. Booting from power cycle took 30+ secs, so not what you want to do everytime.

I would say that this is probably how its meant to work. most CE devices such as cable boxes, satellite tuners, etc, never really shut down. They may go into a slightly lower power state, but they are always on.

Also, keep in mind, I dont think the power consumption here is large. Wasnt it labelled as 20W? A few nightlights eat up more juice than that. I would rather it "shutdown" to the logo, than to completely power down. People want instant gratification, not a delay when they power on their TV. But thats just my opinion.

On your other suggestions, completely agree!

Specifically on #2, it will cause an issue for some of us that have displays that can not accept a 720p input and tuning to 720p channels. In my case, I would lock the extender to 1080i. However there are many many people that want the display to have control over everything and just want native resolution passthru.

Re: #4, many many options here! The list could go on forever, but I would say the most important feature that could be added would be a rear USB port. If I want to hook up a DVD player or something to it, I want the cables hidden.

[spike5884]

Hey maybe this is what SageTv is keeping secrets about:

Cisco Taking on Apple TV with Secret Competitor.

How cool would that be!

[Lucas]

Originally Posted by mikesm

2) Output resolution switching vs locked. If we are outputting 720p for example, and have it locked (presumably the native display resolution), then the extender does the scaling. But if the output floats based on source material, the TV does the scaling. This could be interesting, but has some side effects based on resync times for the various displays, and other issues. Do people here have feelings one way or another?

3) 1080p support - not for decoding 1080p material per se, but for locking to the native resolution of many TV's.

4) USB support - could this be used to support an XBOX HD-DVD drive, content on USB flash drives? Firmware uploading? Etc...

Ditto on the above.

The ability to switch resolutions is important at least as a configurable setting. What is more important is to be able to switch refresh rates on the fly to support 24fps, 25fps or 30fps content. Inverse Telecine support, with corresponding output at 24 or 38 or 72Hz is also important for ultra smooth playback of films.

H.264 playback should also be supported.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by mikesm

1) HDMI vs DVI. HDMI is neater cabling, but DVI to HDMI conversion is cheap, and even if audio was routed via HDMI, we'd still want seperate audio outputs.

It's also got much crappier connectors, way easier to knock loose. IMO, unless you're talking advanced audio, ie multi-channel PCM over HDMI, I see no point using it over DVI+S/PDIF.

2) Output resolution switching vs locked. If we are outputting 720p for example, and have it locked (presumably the native display resolution), then the extender does the scaling. But if the output floats based on source material, the TV does the scaling. This could be interesting, but has some side effects based on resync times for the various displays, and other issues. Do people here have feelings one way or another?

I want the option of "native" output ("floating" per source as you refer to it) for those who would be running this through a high-end scaler (eg a Gennum VXP or Realta HQV).

I think ideally it should also provide the option of a fixed output to avoid the resync issues you mention, for those who aren't running it through a fancy scaler.

3) 1080p support - not for decoding 1080p material per se, but for locking to the native resolution of many TV's.

IMO in a device of this "class" (not knocking it, just being realistic) I don't see a point in 1080p output support. It's highly unlikely that it would do a better job deinterlacing 1080i than the display.

Not saying it shouldn't have it, just that without 1080p sources, 1080p output is kind of worthless. Now if it can play 1080p WMV/VC-1/H.264 then 1080p output would be very nice.

4) USB support - could this be used to support an XBOX HD-DVD drive, content on USB flash drives? Firmware uploading? Etc...

Well I saw a USB port in the pictures. Flash support would be somewhat cool for those who like viewing pictures.

Don't hold your breath for HD DVD support in a $180 extender, unless they're stealthing their way into that market, which given Sigma has HD DVD and BD SoCs, is not impossible.

I can't wait to see it. Next step is to figure out when Anthem is releasing the HDMI/VXP upgrade for the AVM 20 Then I think I can (gasp) replace my HTPC and transition it's hardware to the server.

[ChePazzo]

Originally Posted by mikesm

1) HDMI vs DVI. HDMI is neater cabling, but DVI to HDMI conversion is cheap, and even if audio was routed via HDMI, we'd still want seperate audio outputs.

I have a friend who is looking for a DVI to HDMI converter and all he can find is $300 units. Everything that's cheaper doesn't put the audio onto HDMI. Any idea where he can get a 'cheap' converter?

[gblinckmann]

This makes my day! If you look at the combination that will be available around summer:

1. Move Sage to a Windows Home Server in the basement so that I have something fast enough to do video transcoding (while not interfering with whatever is being run on the PC's). (This also puts the noise out of earshot.)
2. Add two HD Extenders.
3. Add an HDHomeRun upstairs (where reception is excellent).

This will allow me to record and play back content with all my PC's off, even. I'm ready for the HD movies now!

[bhyman1]

Not sure if this has been mentioned. But it would be nice if we could use straight client licenses, not just extender licenses.

I already have 6 and I'd hate to lose the investment.

[ldavis]

Originally Posted by ChePazzo

I have a friend who is looking for a DVI to HDMI converter and all he can find is $300 units. Everything that's cheaper doesn't put the audio onto HDMI. Any idea where he can get a 'cheap' converter?

I think that was mikesm's whole point. You really do not need to carry the audio on the HDMI connector. So what you really need is an adapter not converter. You can get these from buy.com for $13. Personally I agree with stanger89, a DVI connection is much better when you can use it.

[gblinckmann]

Originally Posted by Opus4

This is where I like to see conversations heading -- complaints and rants about licenses and extender details before SageTV has even finished the product. That always adds enjoyment to any conversation.

Anyway.... there are only a couple details that I can mention at the moment:

1) The extender licenses already in use on your Windows installations of SageTV will continue to work with the upcoming HD extenders.

2) Do not rush out to buy any extender right now with the assumption that it will work with SageTV when the SageTV HD extenders are complete and ready for release. Wait for SageTV to release their HD extenders before buying one, regardless of how similar any device may appear. If you buy something now, don't complain that it doesn't work with SageTV later.

The prototypes shown at CES are not ready for release right now, so please allow time for the products to be completed before full details of capabilities and so on are made public. As is usually the case, SageTV will provide further details later on, when the product is ready for release. As many of you should be aware, details can change as development proceeds, so there is no point specifying exact features at this early time.

- Andy

I know that you probably can't answer or comment on this yet, but I'm now planning on getting a home server when they come out and migrating Sage to that. I'm hoping to either just transfer my licenses to that or, perhaps, to just pay for an upgrade from my existing license. Do you think that I'll be able to do that with the 6.0 license?

Sage has always been very good to their existing customers in the past, so I'm not worried. The home server with the HD extenders and PlaceShifter is really going to be a killer system. MCE users can only dream of this!

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by gblinckmann

I know that you probably can't answer or comment on this yet, but I'm now planning on getting a home server when they come out and migrating Sage to that. I'm hoping to either just transfer my licenses to that or, perhaps, to just pay for an upgrade from my existing license. Do you think that I'll be able to do that with the 6.0 license?

I was about to say "expect to buy a new license", but my hunch is this server they sell will include the Sage license, so there will be no "extra" price for the SageTV license.

Now, what we can hope for, is that they'll offer an initial discount for current SageTV owners on the cost of the "server".

I am, like most here, eager to hear details of the stuff they showed at CES. Mostly the extender, because the last thing I need is another server, but the server sounds interesting too.

[gblinckmann]

Originally Posted by stanger89

I was about to say "expect to buy a new license", but my hunch is this server they sell will include the Sage license, so there will be no "extra" price for the SageTV license.

Now, what we can hope for, is that they'll offer an initial discount for current SageTV owners on the cost of the "server".

I am, like most here, eager to hear details of the stuff they showed at CES. Mostly the extender, because the last thing I need is another server, but the server sounds interesting too.

I just saw a video on WHS (Windows Home Server). It seems that it really can run pretty much anything that Windows Server 2003 SP2 can run. We should be able to build our own servers. I don't think that this will be a special "Sage Only" specific server. Sage might just be one of the pieces of software that you can get for it. (I might be completely wrong here about what Sage does --- I'm just going by what I saw on a Microsoft Channel 9 video.)