Is there a minimum time before manual recordings will delete?

[blade]

Originally Posted by jsonnabend

If you need a car manual to figure out how to operate the windows, it's a bad design. If you start feeling frustrated figuring it out without the manual, many UI designers would say it's a bad design (and I would agree). When was the last time you needed the manual to find "drive" (or first gear)?

You're comparing one of the most widely used products in the world (an automobile) with a product that is very new and owned by a mere fraction of the population (a PVR). Of course people are going to be more familiar with how various automobiles function than they are with PVR apps. It takes time for designs to mature and consumers to become familiar with their operation. Surely you don't think the first people to own automobiles, TVs, VCRs, camcorders, etc... sat down and knew exactly what to do. It takes time for devices to work their way into everyday use and the design to be refined.

Also you're comparing the very simple task of driving from point A to B, operating windows etc... which I would consider equivalent to scheduling and playing recordings in Sage to other functions of the software. There are plenty of tasks involving a car such as routine maintenance, repair, and even adjusting driving habits to maximize performance that require reading a manual or even more research to carry out properly. Just ask someone who's never owned a car before how to change the oil. I highly doubt someone never exposed to an automobile is going to be able to just jump right in because it's so intuitive.

As I said the last time you brought this argument up, I agree the UI could be improved by relabeling and moving the location to somewhere more intuitive. What I disagreed with last time was the idea that the default behavior should be to allow Sage to automatically delete manual recordings because it was more logical and intuitive.

[GKusnick]

Originally Posted by jsonnabend

Sage's approach to "don't delete until I say so" is valid, it's just not good.

The great thing about Sage is that anybody who thinks they can design a better UI is welcome to do so. Post an STVI embodying your idea, and if it really is better, chances are it will get adopted in some future version.

[jsonnabend]

Originally Posted by blade

As I said the last time you brought this argument up, I agree the UI could be improved by relabeling and moving the location to somewhere more intuitive. What I disagreed with last time was the idea that the default behavior should be to allow Sage to automatically delete manual recordings because it was more logical and intuitive.

Great, and as I said last time we brought this up, I'm not discussing what the default behavior should be, but how easy it should be for one to change a recording's automatic delete status.

The fact that the automobile has been around and PVR software is relatively new is besides the point. People would know intuitively what "don't delete this recording until I say so" because it says in plain English what it means. The present nomenclature does not.

As for users changing the UI, of course they can, if they're so inclined and have the necessary skills. I have the skills but have no time, and my mother has neither. As long as Sage is content being a hobbyist's product, then there's no need to improve such things.

- Jeff

[blade]

Originally Posted by jsonnabend

Great, and as I said last time we brought this up, I'm not discussing what the default behavior should be, but how easy it should be for one to change a recording's automatic delete status.

From last time:

If I go through and pick a dozen movies to record, and a month later I haven't watched any but I pick a dozen new ones, shouldn't Sage delete the oldest recordings to make room for the new ones? New recordings bump old recordings, no? That's the way my DVR from Time Warner worked, and it made more sense to me.

What would you expect to happen in the scenario I described above, namely, you pick ten things to record, don't watch them, run out of space, and then pick ten new things to record? I think intuition says record the newer things and bump the old ones, no?

Anything that Sage does with "manual recordings" other than record them is non-intuitive, in my opinion.

That is what I disagreed with last time. As I've already said then and now, I agree the option could be more intuitive. What I disagree with is that Sage must act like your Time Warner box or any other box for that matter.

The fact that the automobile has been around and PVR software is relatively new is besides the point. People would know intuitively what "don't delete this recording until I say so" because it says in plain English what it means. The present nomenclature does not.

It is not beside the point because you're saying cars are an excellent example of intuitive and standardized layouts and the fact people don't have to read the manual in order to drive is proof. Automobiles appear intuitive and straight forward due to the vast experience we have with the product. Unless maybe you think a triangle intuitively says hazard or a bullet is an intuitive symbol for lights.

The more experience someone has with a type of product the more "intuitive" things seem. I agree if it's labeled well in Sage there won't be much of a learning curve, but the point is comparing a PVR to a car is a very poor analogy. Saying if the UI was well designed there would be no need to look at the manual of a PVR because people don't need to read the manual of their car in order to drive is a little silly.

Most people spend 15-16 years riding in and becoming familiar with cars before actually driving where as many have next to no experience with a PVR. If someone sat in a car for the first time and knew nothing about them it would not be intuitive. How a car operates is learned over time. Since we're exposed to it gradually people tend to forget that.

[BobPhoenix]

Also what wrong with pressing the Record button a second time after you start to watch it to remove the manual record status and therefor become one of the first recordings to be deleted?