Support now possible for ATI All-In-Wonder products?

[JasonJoel]

Nevermind.. Just tried it.

It would let me configure the AIW as an encoder, but as soon as it tried to use it to view Live TV or record it gave an error.

So, doesn't look like it works.. Didn't think it did, but thought I would try it anyway.

I still think it is REALLY stupid that Sage TV doesn't support this. Yes it uses more CPU than hardware encoder, but the picture quality is VERY good, there is a large install base, and darn it - it should be up to the user if they want to use a software encoder (even if just a limited number like AIW cards), not Frey.

Jason

Originally posted by drbenson
It *will* be kinda interesting- the Encode software mentioned above is included in the drivers I'm using. The ATI website hype says their software encoder uses the same amount of CPU load as a hardware encoder on a 2.4ghz Pentium, and the load is LESS (as % of CPU used) with a faster chip, while the hardware CPU load remains constant.

This evening's test will be on an Athlon XP 2000+. I will let all and sundry know what happens.

[drbenson]

Since mine did let me view live TV, I figure I'll give it a shot this evening. YMMV, and all that. At least I'll post the error message(s) for the Sage people to peruse.

I agree that Sage should support the AIW, if feasible. There are lots of 'em out there, and the barrier of entry would be so much lower if people who had them could buy the Sage software without hundreds more in hardware costs.

I would really be interested if someone from Sage could enlighten us on their thinking about this- is it because of a geek prejudice against software encoding of any kind, or are there insurmountable technical issues?

[Lester Jacobs]

Originally posted by drbenson
Since mine did let me view live TV, I figure I'll give it a shot this evening. YMMV, and all that. At least I'll post the error message(s) for the Sage people to peruse.

I agree that Sage should support the AIW, if feasible. There are lots of 'em out there, and the barrier of entry would be so much lower if people who had them could buy the Sage software without hundreds more in hardware costs.

I would really be interested if someone from Sage could enlighten us on their thinking about this- is it because of a geek prejudice against software encoding of any kind, or are there insurmountable technical issues?

This sounds promising! Please keep us updated. I think I am one of the few pro-ATI voices on this board. Maybe if we can show some initial success in your rig then things might change....


Cheers
Lester

[dkardatzke]

Our decision was based around providing the best solution out of the gate. From there we will expand support for other cards and software based encoding cards. However this support will not occur until after version 2.0 is released.

Adding support for cards like ATI will cause a need for more technical support so we need to make sure we are ready for that expansion before we go down that path. We fully understand the size of the market but we don't want to get ahead of the current plan right now with version 2.

[drbenson]

Thanks for the response. No doubt you *would* have more support questions from n00b users if you supported the AIW. I hope after the push for 2.0 is complete the larger market would justify adding some tech support.

If a fairly tech savvy beta tester with a Sage / Hauppage / AIW testbed would help move things along, please let me know.

By the way, for those who are interested, I'm still playing with the new AIW drivers and may have more info / completed test recording over the weekend. Time is limited....

[rkn555]

software encoders and usb devices may work for encoding.
but nowhere near what hardware devices can accomplish in quality.
if your pc hiccups while loading photoshop or checking your email or even when just starting musicmatch jukebox... then when you have sagetv running in the background recording something(while using an AIW or usb interface)
you know what happens to the recording ? it hiccups too.

[JasonJoel]

Ok, I'll shut up after this. I'm starting to sound like a broken record.

Everyone talks about 'stutters' with software encoders... And that CAN be true, but I've tested this extensively on MY dedicated PVR server (these are only MY results on MY machine, yours may vary).

I record things using my ATI AIW video card in software ALL THE TIME on the same machine as my Sage TV server.

I RARELY ever have even one stutter in an hour long show. RARELY.

I've even tested recording with my ATI AIW at the same time I record with TWO PVR250's. So 3 simultaneous recordings, 2 hardware one software. Works beautifully.

So for those of us with dedicated PVR servers, software encoding CAN be a very cheap, useful, and good quality way to add another encoder.

I just want the OPTION to do this in the software. If you don't want to use it, fine. But for those of us that do, and can reliably it would be a SUPER feature.

I understand this will not be in for v2.0, but I would really like to see it considered for a future version.

Jason

Originally posted by rkn555
software encoders and usb devices may work for encoding.
but nowhere near what hardware devices can accomplish in quality.
if your pc hiccups while loading photoshop or checking your email or even when just starting musicmatch jukebox... then when you have sagetv running in the background recording something(while using an AIW or usb interface)
you know what happens to the recording ? it hiccups too.

[Lester Jacobs]

Originally posted by JasonJoel
...I've even tested recording with my ATI AIW at the same time I record with TWO PVR250's. So 3 simultaneous recordings, 2 hardware one software. Works beautifully...
Jason

I did this exact same test a few days ago (record on AIW at the same time as Sage was recording) and also had no problem. As Jason says it can be done and its proven in actual practical tests on both his system and mine. Therefore it is likely that it will work for many others as well.

Even when I've got the AIW encoding process to hiccup or stutter, it never loses sync. The hiccuping is no worse than the video glitches that sometimes affect the PVR 250s.

Actually, what surprises me is that the AIW never loses sync and it's a software encoder whilst Sage using my old Creative DVCR card (now relegated to my test machine) which is a hardware encoder goes in and out of sync all the time. So here's one example of a hardware encoder actually performing worse than a software encoder.

Regards
Lester

[reesd]

For what its worth, I have an AIW 128 Pro (forgot I even had it to be honest) and I am about to pull the trigger on a SnapStream purchase because SS and AIW are working great for me after a week of testing.

Based on discussions, PVRX50 is obviously a better solution, but I don't want to spend the cash unless it means HDTV support. I looked at the Sage and AccessDTV, but playback stutters are keeping me away for now.

So that is at least one sale lost due to AIW support (though I could easily buy Sage later to be honest).

My suggestion? Support AIW/software at the same level you "support" the AccessDTV. Post some random drivers in a newsgroup. That will allow dedicated users to try it out, but isolate you from all the AIW users who don't have the basic skills you want in your user community yet. Of course they do have $, but its your company and your cost/revenue call....

d