Cannot tune above channel 14

[sr59899]

Hi,

I can only see channels 2-14, 14 and higher appear gray. Please help.

[Opus4]

If you go to the Source Details for the tuner (Setup -> Setup Video Sources -> select the source to see Source Details), what does it say for "Cable/Antenna"? Try switching it.

- Andy

[sr59899]

It's set to "Cable/Antenna: Cable" I tried switching to "Antenna" Still can't tune above Ch 14.

[Opus4]

I don't know what would cause it, but if you provide more information about your system, your tuner card, how it is connected to its source, and so on, maybe someone will have an idea.

- Andy

[mike1961]

If you are hooking up through Coax without a cable box then I can tell you almost for certain what is causing this and have a solution. See my post on the "fuzzy channels." Sage has not yet fixed this bug but you can still fix the problem with the Freq Fixer. Personally, I think in the long run you should consider using a cable box for each tuner card but this will fix your problem. In general, many cable providers have offset their frequencies above basic channels to support digital and analog. Mine were offset equally so it was simply a matter of adding the same frequency to the base frequency for each channel. Doesn't matter much to me anymore because I do everything throught the cable box.

You will need to use the Freq Fixer. Please do a search on "fuzzy channels" and you will find lots of info on how to fix it. In general, you need the freq fixer and you need to find the link to microsoft on the NTSC frequencies. Here's a start:

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...highlight=ntsc

EDITED: should have mentioned, try hooking to your TV and bypassing Sage to make sure something else is not causing the problem. For example, I don't know your setup and if you are going through a VCR or something and then to Sage and perhaps your VCR is not configure to cable but to TV then that may cause it also. Most users with the problem of "fuzzy channels" is such that the channel does come in but there is no volume and it is full of snow. However, if your cable provider has offset the frequency enough then it may not come in at all without Freq Fixer.

Mike

[sr59899]

I am not using a cable box. Out of the wall, the cable signal is split 3 ways: 1) To my HDTV receiver, 2) To my PC's cable modem, and 3) To my PC's TV tuner card. I know that my cable provider provides both analog and digital programming using the same cable.

I am using a Sony VAIO with a Gigapocket TV tuner card. I can watch TV using the Gigapocket SW and can tune above Ch 13 to any channel. But I want to use SageTV. SageTV is the only PVR software I found out there that can detect the Gigapocket TV tuner card.

This is the link to my system for more details: http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/mod...PCVRZ24G&LOC=3
Here are the details:

VIDEO & GRAPHICS
4X AGP 3D Graphics Hardware Acceleration
(nVIDIA® GeForce4™ MX 440)
64MB Video Memory (128-bit DDR)
Giga PocketTM MPEG2 Realtime Encoder/Decoder
board with TV Tuner

Mike1961 I will try your suggestions tonight. Thanks

[mike1961]

Well - there you have it. You are running the cable directly to your computer so I'm quite confident that is the problem. Your cable company is not using the standard NTSC frequencies. To fix the problem you either need to do one of two things:

1. Get the free frequency fix software and plug in the proper frequencies so that the channels come in clear (also, before doing this, Sage has an AutoTune feature that you may want to try turning on and see if that helps). Otherwise, use the freq fixer to fix the problem.

2. Have Sage tune all your channels via the cable box.

What I did was play around with Sage on my computer for a while and then once I gained knowledge I hooked up 4 cable boxes to my server. Now, i can watch any program anywhere in the house and Sage records everything to the file server. I really like a "central file system" for all my recordings. But, if anything at all, consider using a cable box otherwise you have to get Freq Fixer software to plug in the correct frequencies. It really works great and is "rock solid" once you tweak it to your needs. It's really amazing everything sage can do (I'm a believer..). I junked the Tivos I had (I just have to transfer the recordings from Tivo to Sage) otherwise I'm not sure what I'm going to do with the Tivos because they are too big for "bookends."

Mike

[sr59899]

How do I turn on the AutoTune feature?

Any idea how to get the proper frequencies? I was reading other threads and found that someone was not able to get the frequencies from their cable provider.

I want to try the AutoTune feature first.

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by sr59899

How do I turn on the AutoTune feature?

Any idea how to get the proper frequencies? I was reading other threads and found that someone was not able to get the frequencies from their cable provider.

I want to try the AutoTune feature first.

I guess I'm a little confused with all this tuning stuff and such. Are you outside the US? Reason I ask is I'm in the US and have NEVER ran any tuning or channel scan or anything for Sage. I use Comcast cable and just download the listings, hook the cable from the wall to the card and just go. Never had an issue tuning channels or any of the other issues I have read from time to time. Is this just an outside the US or no provider issue?

Gerry

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by sr59899

I am using a Sony VAIO with a Gigapocket TV tuner card.

Perhaps it is an issue with this tuner? You could search the forum for 'gigapocket' or check with support to see if they know anything about it.

Among other results from searching the forum for that is this discussion.

- Andy

[mike1961]

Gplasky the issue has to do with cable companies "shifting" the frequencies and offsetting them to accommodate for digital frequencies.

Opus - it's not a problem with the tuner at all. It's the fact that Sage does not autotune in a far enough "bandwidth" to catch the frequency (but the problem exists on BTV also).

SR - Autotuning - Detailed Setup, Customize, Always Tune Channel. If that does not work then you have to get the standard NTSC frequencies at the microsoft site. Next, as an example the NTSC frequencies for channels 23 and 24 are 217250000 and 223250000. So, I tried a frequency near the middle and then kept going down by 1/2 to find a frequency that would tune. You have to use the Freq Fixer to enter ONE value (ie: channel 23 or maybe channel 50, etc. Pick one channel). Exit Sage and reenter Sage each time you change the frequency until you find what offset makes it come in clear.

For what it's worth, this is a problem in BTV as well and not just Sage. Before I went to cable boxes I found that I had to increment the frequency by 6000000 for all the channels (channel 23 and up) (since they were all offset the same amount). I wrote a simple program to create a text file for the frequencies that were offset by that amount and then just loaded them in Freq Fixer.

I just discovered this link at Microsoft which may also be of use stating that after installing DirectX - the tuner may no longer work properly (with a fix):

http://search.microsoft.com/results....g=en-US&q=NTSC

I'm not sure if you are in the US but here are the freq tables at microsoft (along with other countries if you look at this link):

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en...asp?frame=true

You may offset these frequencies with Freq Fixer to fix the problem. Try the other option first with the DirectX issue as I just discovered that now but if that does not fix the problem then Freq Fixer should.

Mike

[blade]

Originally Posted by gplasky

I guess I'm a little confused with all this tuning stuff and such. Are you outside the US? Reason I ask is I'm in the US and have NEVER ran any tuning or channel scan or anything for Sage. I use Comcast cable and just download the listings, hook the cable from the wall to the card and just go. Never had an issue tuning channels or any of the other issues I have read from time to time. Is this just an outside the US or no provider issue?

Gerry

I used FreqCopy (I think it's called) to use WinTV's tuning table frequencies. It appears to me that I'm getting a better quality signal now. Channels 2-13 were a little fuzzy before and now they seem to be much clearer. It wasn't actual static, but just didn't look as sharp as the higher frequency channels. It could all be in my head, but others have said it looks better than before.

I do find it unlikely that all the channels would be so far off that they wouldn't tune at all. If so it seems like it would be a problem for at least some VCRs and TVs as well.

[rfutscher]

Originally Posted by blade

..........
I do find it unlikely that all the channels would be so far off that they wouldn't tune at all. If so it seems like it would be a problem for at least some VCRs and TVs as well.

The cable industry developed two different channel maps with offset frequencies. They were developed to reduce the intermod distortion so that the cables could be extended, allowing for a larger coverage ares.

There is a channel map here.
http://www.jneuhaus.com/fccindex/cablech.html

The HRC channel map is designed so the intermod distortion images will fall on the same frequencies as a carrier. The carrier is so strong that it will over ride the intermod. The intermod distortion in regular TV channel assignments will fall in the video and be much more annoying.

Both the HRC and IRC frequency assignments close the gap between channels 5 and 6, allowing for more channels. VCRs and cable ready TV sets have selections for the offset frequencies.

[mike1961]

rfutscher - makes a lot of sense. I wish I had that link months back before I started tuning everything through the cable box. It would have avoided a lot of guess work. I even called the cable co. for tech support before I switched to DTV and they did not even know what I was talking about and acted as if I were trying to steal something really secret. In any event, Freq fixer did fix the problem. But, I'm assuming if you go through a cable box you don't need to tune anything.

Edited: The problem I think is that Sage either does not autotune to these frequencies or just doesn't have a broad enough range for autotuning for fear of tuning into a different channel. I don't think it's much of an issue because many just go through the cable box. But, when I had the problem, I found that I just had horrible "snow" on almost every channel above 22 and Freq Fixer took care of everything. I even wrote a Visual FoxPro program to automatically write out a text file that Freq Fixer could load so that I would not have to type in all the frequencies for some 70 channels (since they were offset by the same frequency). If anyone is interested in the code I can post it.

Mike

[sr59899]

All,

I tried to turn on the "Autotune" feature in SageTV but it was already on, so I tried turning it off. No luck :-(

Also I tried using Freq Fixer but didn't have any success. Do I use the "Generic tuning space" or "USA"? I am located in the US. I tried putting channel entries in both tuning spaces. I also tried putting in the frequencies from rfutscher's link: http://www.jneuhaus.com/fccindex/cablech.html . What's interesting is the footnote for some channels:

"1. Cable channels operating on frequencies used in the aeronautical radiocommunications bands 118-137, 225-328.6 and 335.4-400 MHz are required to be offset by 12.5 kHz from 25 kHz-spaced channels [FCC Rules section 76.612 (a)]. The common offset is positive."

I noticed that the frequency for some channels (14 for example) is already +12.5kHz from the frequency from Microsoft's table. So I used the frequencies from rfutscher's link in freq shifter and it still didn't work. But I might still need to do more shifting?? This is getting confusing :-(

Before using freq fixer I looked at my PC's registry and didn't find the registry key: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\TV System Services\TVAutoTune\TS#-$

Was this key supposed to be there before before? How does SageTV know to look here for the shifted frequencies?

Sounds like a cable box is my next option but the Gigapocket SW that came with my PC doesn't need one. It's able to tune in all channels without any problems.

p.s. I'm having frequent crashes/sluggish video with SageTV too. Will create another thread about that at some point.

Any more help with freq tuning will be appreciated.

[mike1961]

Start by trying to get only one channel to work. You have to exit Sage, entry the frequency in Freq Fixer and then go back into Sage. For example, the frequency for channels 49-51 are :

373250000, // 49
379250000, // 50
385250000, // 51

So, try to tune in channel 50. The default frequency is 379250000. Try a value half way between 50 and 51. Plug in the value in Frequency Shifter then go into Sage and tune channel 50 and see what happens. If it is not coming in, the range between 50 and 51 is 38525000 - 37925000 = 6,000,000. Dividing the difference by 10 would allow you to test ten frequencies. So, add 600,000 to the base channel 50 frequency of 379,250,000. Turn the AutoTune on in Sage and keep pluggin in values in increments of 600,000. Be sure to exit Sage each time you change the value and then go back into Sage again and try tuning channel 50. Eventually it should come in clear and then you will know how far to offset each channel. Use the NTSA cable assignments from the link to Microsoft I provided above (you should see the same frequencies for channels 49-51 in my above example).

Mike

[sr59899]

I tried using Freq fixer again. No success. I used the "USA" tuning space and these are the frequencies I tried for channel 50:

379850000
380450000
381050000
381650000
382250000
382850000
383450000
384050000
384650000

Still get a gray screen.

[mike1961]

First - are you running SageServer Control? If so, you must enter the frequencies on the File Server and not the Sage Client. The SageClient is not relevant.

Next...

Did you make sure autotuning is on and

1. Exit Sage go into Freq Shifter enter a frequency.
2. Go back in Sage and test the channel
3. Repeat step one with the next frequency.

Did you: test the channels by bypassing Sage and plugging the cable directly into a VCR or TV for testing?

Can you post a screen shot of say channel 50?

EDITED: If you are running SageControl, you should try stopping and starting Sagecontrol after changing the frequencies as well as going back into Sage each time. It has to work because I dealt with this and researched it for months and got it to work flawlessly.

Mike

[sr59899]

Originally Posted by mike1961

First - are you running SageServer Control? If so, you must enter the frequencies on the File Server and not the Sage Client. The SageClient is not relevant.

Next...

Did you make sure autotuning is on and

1. Exit Sage go into Freq Shifter enter a frequency.
2. Go back in Sage and test the channel
3. Repeat step one with the next frequency.

Did you: test the channels by bypassing Sage and plugging the cable directly into a VCR or TV for testing?

Can you post a screen shot of say channel 50?

EDITED: If you are running SageControl, you should try stopping and starting Sagecontrol after changing the frequencies as well as going back into Sage each time. It has to work because I dealt with this and researched it for months and got it to work flawlessly.

Mike

Yes Autotune is turned on. I tried disabling SageTV service before writing a new frequency and going back into SageTV for each frequency. I haven't tried a VCR but I'm pretty sure the cable works because the Gigapocket SW that came with my PC can show channel 50 and any other channel.

Still not working.

[mike1961]

That is not fuzzy or gray but completely dark. I would start by trying to hook the cable into a VCR and make sure you set the VCR to cable (not antenna) and check channels 2 on up and see what you get. Maybe somehow your cable company has encoded the signal above 13 or something nonstandard that forces you to use a cable box. Never heard of that below channel 99 but stranger things have happened.

If it works on the vcr then perhaps you may have a faulty tuner card or faulty drivers for the tuner. What kind of tuner card is it and does it work with the tv software provided to you with the card?

Mike