New Video Projector Advice

[stanger89]

There's always this:
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Sony-VPL-VW100.htm

[Kanati]

I'm old school when it comes to projectors...

I'd recommend an Ampro, Electrohome Marquee or even the venerable, but king of all projectors... The Sony G90.

But you will spend a lot more than on a DLP...

[stanger89]

And a lot more work to get it to look as good, and keep it looking as good (of course they can look better).

[jptaz]

Originally Posted by stanger89

There's always this:
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Sony-VPL-VW100.htm

Well Stanger the only problem I see with it is that 1080P is only available over DVI...I just don't think I can spend that much money on a cable

But seriously....Such a dilemma....

I definitely can see Rainbows in the PE7700....so I know if I watch my favorite movies I need to seriously focus to not see rainbows...Damn lazy eye

Verus the potential for Dead/Stuck Pixels and Veritcal Banding...Both, if detected earlier, apparently can be exchanged as a DOA Unit from a good reseller...

At this point I am actually considering getting the PE7700 From the TV Authority which has a 30 Risk free Trial with a no restocking fee and really beating on it with source Material that challenges it and if I still am really bothered by the Rainbows it goes back and I give a 3 LCD a shot, either a Panny 900 or Sanyo Z4. The worse thing that comes out of it is that I get 30 days with a pretty darn good projector...of course neither of the LCD projectors can be returned without a restocking fee.

Whatever I decide to keep I will also most likely get a Mack 4 Year Extended Video Warranty + 3 Year Bulb Replacement warranty. Given the History on the PE7700 it seems like a good choice...but really if Mack truly allows for 2 bulb replacements in 3 years I can't lose...Especially since I plan on putting some serious hours on what ever projector I get.

EDIT: The PE77000 Open Box is $200 less and appears to offer the same 30 day return a mail in rebate for a free lamp and a free ceiling mount....this seems too good to be true...I am guessing it is and error on their website and the 30 day return policy is not available.

John

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by jptaz

Well Stanger the only problem I see with it is that 1080P is only available over DVI...I just don't think I can spend that much money on a cable

http://www.monoprice.com/products/su...d=10231&style=

But seriously....Such a dilemma....

I definitely can see Rainbows in the PE7700....so I know if I watch my favorite movies I need to seriously focus to not see rainbows...Damn lazy eye

Verus the potential for Dead/Stuck Pixels and Veritcal Banding...Both, if detected earlier, apparently can be exchanged as a DOA Unit from a good reseller...

At this point I am actually considering getting the PE7700 From the TV Authority which has a 30 Risk free Trial with a no restocking fee and really beating on it with source Material that challenges it and if I still am really bothered by the Rainbows it goes back and I give a 3 LCD a shot, either a Panny 900 or Sanyo Z4. The worse thing that comes out of it is that I get 30 days with a pretty darn good projector...of course neither of the LCD projectors can be returned without a restocking fee.

I forgot what your pricerange was, but you should really investigate the Optima H77 or especially the H78DC3. I've heard it's (much?) better than the 900. I know when I got my MT700, the H77 was going for a similar price. I think you'd be doing yourself a disservice if you didn't at least investigate one/both before buying. You'll probably have to call to get the best price on it though.

[jptaz]

The H77 is not available anywhere...I have checked and the H78DC3 looks great, but is double my price range of $2K, optimistically it is $1500 more. Truthfully I looked at an Optoma H79 and it way out of my price range and the demo I saw was nice, but not $3K to $4K nicer for my desires/Budget now.

I just ordered the BENQ PE7700 which has a 30 day risk free return policy and was lower than my price range. If some seriously competetively priced projectors come out of CES in response to the Sanyo Z4 and Panasonic 900 I will consider shipping the PE7700 back or if I see too many rainbows back it goes and I will grab a Panny 900 unless by some miracle the HD3 or DarkChip2 Projectors that have 8 Segment color wheels drop to my range...but I have a feeling it won't matter since I was seeing Rainbows even on the H79 which has an 8 segment wheel.

Supposedly the Optoma H72 will ship pretty soon after CES with a DarkChip2 DLP which is rumored to be in the $2K range...I may still take a gamble with a 3 LCD, but for a good trial on a 720 DLP it is worth a shot.

John

[Kanati]

regarding rainbows... Your eyes should eventually get used to it if you watch a lot of tv and you won't notice them any more. I noticed them on my DLP set immediately and it was distracting for the first month give or take... But now I actually have to force the issue in order to see them. And sometimes I can't even do that.

[jptaz]

Kanati,

I have had my projector for 3 years...so it is not exactly new to me.

I really only see it on high contrast and dark movies, not TV...unless it is say something on scifi. also it more noticable on a projected 92" image opposed a smaller screen where you are watching at least 1.5 x Image Width. I actually prefer sitting closer, and unfortunately my room dictates that to some extent which means my eyes are moving more which is why people see rainbows.

I sat and watched all of 50 first dates which a bright relatively low contrast movie and saw none....but my current favorite movie, Sin City, extremely dark high contrast and dynamic movie was rainbow city and I had to sit pretty far back and really force myself not to move my eyes.

I have canceled my BenQ PE7700 order since I reread the BENQ warranty and I misread it. I would only get a 1 year warranty since they only allow a 3 year on Open or Demo units directly purchased from them not their dealers and also having read more on the lamp problems I am really concerned that people are still reporting major lamp problems. While BenQ has been good about taking care of customers for the most part it seems crazy that 12 months later people still seeing high failure rates.

I also read that Infocus and Optoma are releasing new 720P DarkChip2 models that are competitive in the $2K price range. As much as I would like to get the nice rebates for a Panasonic it seems impulsive and stupid not to wait and see what will be anounced next week at CES, also I would bet that they extend it into the new year with competition heating up from DLP announcements.

John

[Kanati]

Strange... everyone I've ever heard of with a DLP eventually doesn't notice them. As is also my own experience. But if you sees em you sees em...

I'd definitely be looking at some of the newest DLPs that are supposed to eliminate the rainbows in your case. Higher revs on the wheels... more color sections on the wheels... etc.

Hope you find something that works for ya.

[jptaz]

Part of the problem is that I have not really used it for day to day TV watching. Maybe if I started watching the projector every day I will not notice it as much, but in 3 years I have only put about 1000 hours on the current DLP...granted for more than 9 months I couldn't use it while I was working on my house and there was way too much Dust and no place to mount it or set it up. If I was not so worried about the lousy Lamp Life issues I was planning to really testing the PE7700 with a Grey screen that would allow me to watch with more ambient light.

What ever projector I get will most likely be used more than my current one since they will be many times brighter.

John

[parkimar]

Kanati Wrote :-

Strange... everyone I've ever heard of with a DLP eventually doesn't notice them. As is also my own experience. But if you sees em you sees em...

I've just realised I've stopped noticing Rainbows on my Samsung DLP (DLR4667W) - I've had it about 6 weeks.

Cheers

Mark

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by jptaz

If I was not so worried about the lousy Lamp Life issues I was planning to really testing the PE7700 with a Grey screen that would allow me to watch with more ambient light.

Honestly I'm not sure what to tell you. On the one hand yes, there have been issues (I've been subjected to them). But on the other (good or bad), if I understand correctly, the new design bulbs have only been in circulation for the last 3-4 months at best. I don't think there's been one reported/confirmed case of a new design bulb failing early. Based on my own experience, 150-300 seems to be the range for the old bulb failures, and for me that takes 3-4 months to hit that mark. I'd guess that we'll probably still be seeing a reasonably large number of reports of bulb failures for another month or two while the old bulbs work their way out of circulation.

On the rainbow topic, I fall into the category of those who see them, but aren't bothered by them (asside from the fact that I'd rather not see them . And FWIW 2, I think the 7700/MT700 default to 4x color wheel, I know mine was set thus in the service menu. It could be changed to 5x though.

[jptaz]

Stanger,

I think the bigger reason I bailed on the PE7700 is that Optoma and Infocus are releasing new projectors at CES next week with some very competetive pricing in my range. I suspect that pricing on the current models will drop as a result.

The more I read in the AVS Forum about Veritcal Banding and Dead/Stuck Pixels and LCD Fading over time the more I just don't see benefit of the risk. A large number of dealers I have talked to said that no one exchanges units that exhibit dead/stuck pixels and Vertical Banding. To me this is absolutely crazy. How a manufacturer can say that it is acceptable to have a distored picture on device that costs $2000+ is insane...ok I get saying that for an LCD monitor...but come on if in the first 30 days let alone the life of a short warranty most of these come with it should be a straight replacement on any of these issues. On the plus side AV Science does sell several LCD models and they do treat both of these conditions in a projector as DOA replacements in the first 30 days...but even so I am leaning more toward DLP...I know and I can deal with the rainbows if I sit furhter back

I have not heard of any dead pixels on DLPs...maybe I am wrong I am on this one, but I am fairly sure the DLP won't fade over time...it just makes sense...they are mirrors if they still work the only way they can fade if for the color wheel to fade or the bulb to fade and I am guessing replacing a color wheel is much cheaper than replacing 3 LCD panels that have faded.

All I know is that this projector had better last for 5 years of good use.

John

[jptaz]

Well Stanger,

I went and saw a Epson 550 LCD projector and I see what you mean by lacking true constrast ratio and black levels.

I took Sin City to look at the PE7700 and other than the rainbows I have never seen the level detail and great blacks and contrast it produced. I then went to a store that had the Epson 550 and it just looked washed out and I had to turn the iris control off or it looked like someone was flipping the lights on and off as it when from scene to scene, sometime even within the same camera shot as it panned and the black levels changed.

I am hoping with calibration it can be made to look acceptable, while I am beginning to think the reviewers simply ignore challenging material that actually requires real contrast levels...but even the epson 550 was reviewed with Sin City and they claim it has close to the black levels and constrast of competitors in its price range which have been viewed as good or better than the PE7700.

John