STV Import: Automatic Aspect Ratio Switcher for SageTV 4

[davidk21770]

This used to bring up it's menu when I hit aspect ratio while playing a recording. Now I just get the normal aspect ratio menu. When reading your detailed instructinos page, I see the cryptic "or if using the dynamic menus plugin, add a new menu page 'Auto Aspect Settings by Nielm'", but the menu where it needs to be added can't be changed to add a menu item? How do I access this while I'm playing a show if I'm running standard sage with dynamic menus?

And, can I add another category to have the aspect set based on file type? Sage gets my downloaded mkv files wrong. Since they're all HD, a simple rule would work.

[Stuntman]

Does the wiki for this still work? I tried going to the link and something came up that just didn't seem to be what I was expecting..

[ke6guj]

the sage-community wiki was abandoned by its owner. All of nielm's stuff has been moved to a new location, located in his sig. http://tools.assembla.com/sageplugins/wiki/WikiStart

[BAS]

Just want to say thanks very much to the author for this plugin. I've needed something like this for such a long time and I'm glad I've finally found it! Cheers!

[ke6guj]

I'm using SageMC 6.3.7a and using flachbar's version that was patched for SageMC6.3.4 and noticed that I can't modify existing auto-aspect setting rules. I can setup new rules, but can't adjust existing rules.

[bluenote]

I'd like to use this not so much to create rules, but to give me several zoom modes that I can toggle through. Is this possible with this addon? thx

Cory

[ke6guj]

Originally Posted by cnovak

I'd like to use this not so much to create rules, but to give me several zoom modes that I can toggle through. Is this possible with this addon? thx

Cory

no, this addon does not add additonal zoom modes, it just uses the multiple aspect ratio settings that Sage has and automatically switches between them as needed. YOu are aware that you can adjust the different aspect ratios to different zoom settings as needed?

And there is a Sage command available that will allow you to toggle through the aspect ratio settings.

[bluenote]

Originally Posted by ke6guj

no, this addon does not add additonal zoom modes, it just uses the multiple aspect ratio settings that Sage has and automatically switches between them as needed. YOu are aware that you can adjust the different aspect ratios to different zoom settings as needed?

And there is a Sage command available that will allow you to toggle through the aspect ratio settings.

I haven't been using the toggle, but I'm aware of it. My main problem is that it doesn't seem like 3 is enough because of the fact that Im using them as *zoom* modes as opposed to actual aspect ratio modes. I've configured a couple but it seems like I always end up re-configuring the 3 available. Unfortunately its not just a case of what the "proper" AR is, factors like, is the content cropped, letterboxed, not cropped, etc make a difference for those percentage zooms. :/

If this doesn't in fact let me configure *more* than the basic 4 options then it won't help, but I guess I will try the toggle. Thanks for the thought

Cory

[ke6guj]

What type of content do you ahve that you need more than 4 aspect ratios?

I use a 16:9 screen to watch my stuff and everything I watch uses a total of 2 aspect ratios. I use Source for my HD 16:9 content and my SD 4:3 content (I keep the pillar boxing because I prefer not to distort the content). I use 16:9 with 133% h/v zoom to watch letterboxed 16:9 content that was broadcast in 4:3 so now it is postage stamped with pillarboxes and letterboxes. The 133% zoom perfectly zoooms in without distortion. Thats it, just those two ratios take care of all my stuff.

Any dl'ed or DVD content is usually watched in Source. Stuff that is less than 16:9 gives pillarboxes, and stuff wider than 16:9 will have small letterboxes. I could see tweaking another aspect ratio to slightly zoom in true 4:3 content to minimize the pillarboxing without causing too much distortion or chopping off too much of hte top or bottom, but other than that?

Supposedly the HD extender will let you create all kinds of custom aspect ratios so maybe that may be worth looking into.

[bialio]

I use all 4 of the aspects during normal watching. I don't keep pillar boxing - as it is prone to cause uneven burn in on my Plasma TV.

• Fill - use to watch normal SD 4x3 source - stretch it to fill the screen horizontally, and then add a little vertical stretch so that everything isn't overly wide (crops a little from top and bottom). This isn't geometrically correct, but close enough that it doesn't bother me.
• Source - for 16x9 stuff (HD)
• 4x3 - use for pillarboxed 4x3 - this is usually from HD channels that show a 4x3 show with black bars on either side. So on this one I eliminate the black bars - same idea as Fill, but requires different values since it's a HD source resolution rather than 480i.
• 16x9 - use this as a Zoom for letterboxed 4x3 shows.

btl.

[erik]

jere and I agreed on a output format that lists all used aspect ratio.s in a recording
Example

0:00:00.03 1920x1088 1.78 minX=  10, minY=  10, maxX=1910, maxY=1078
0:00:04.83 1920x1088 2.17 minX=  10, minY=  98, maxX=1910, maxY= 990
0:00:43.20 1920x1088 1.78 minX=  10, minY=  10, maxX=1902, maxY=1078
0:03:43.08 1920x1088 2.30 minX=  10, minY= 130, maxX=1910, maxY= 958
0:04:08.91 1920x1088 1.78 minX=  10, minY=  10, maxX=1910, maxY=1078
0:04:38.94 1920x1088 2.17 minX=  10, minY= 114, maxX=1910, maxY= 982
0:05:24.02 1920x1088 1.78 minX=  10, minY=  10, maxX=1910, maxY=1078
0:05:39.03 1920x1088 2.88 minX=  10, minY= 218, maxX=1910, maxY= 878
0:05:56.38 1920x1088 2.57 minX=  10, minY= 178, maxX=1910, maxY= 918
0:06:09.03 1280x 720 1.39 minX= 154, minY=  10, maxX=1126, maxY= 710
0:07:09.26 1920x1088 1.78 minX=  10, minY=  10, maxX=1910, maxY=1078
0:07:19.37 1920x1088 2.07 minX=  10, minY=  82, maxX=1910, maxY=1006
0:07:23.94 1920x1088 1.78 minX=  10, minY=  10, maxX=1910, maxY=1078
0:21:02.16 1920x1088 2.17 minX=  10, minY= 106, maxX=1910, maxY= 982
0:21:32.09 1920x1088 1.78 minX=  10, minY=  10, maxX=1910, maxY=1078
0:23:06.01 1920x1088 2.17 minX=  10, minY= 106, maxX=1910, maxY= 982
0:23:32.04 1280x 720 1.39 minX= 154, minY=  10, maxX=1126, maxY= 710
0:24:32.07 1920x1088 1.78 minX=  10, minY=  10, maxX=1910, maxY=1078

Is this consistent with your view?

[Humanzee]

Originally Posted by bialio

I use all 4 of the aspects during normal watching.

The one that is missing is when an HD channel broadcasts a 4:3 ratio video but that video only has 16:9 content so you get this little bit of content in the middle of your screen. Rare but it does happen.

The output file that Erik and Jere have come up with should allow for a plug in developer, such as the all mighty Nielm , to be create / update a plug-in to follow a custom dynamically sized ratio box that follows the actual content displayed in the video from scene to commercial etc. The trick then would be to get a 5th aspect ratio option, or designate one of the existing that could have its zoom levels dynamically updated while watching so that the content always fits the screen. + or - some border clipping if desired.

Then the only aspect feature that would be missing from sage as far as I can tell would be non-linear stretch/zoom.

[bialio]

Originally Posted by erik

jere and I agreed on a output format that lists all used aspect ratio.s in a recording
Example

0:00:00.03 1920x1088 1.78 minX=  10, minY=  10, maxX=1910, maxY=1078
0:00:04.83 1920x1088 2.17 minX=  10, minY=  98, maxX=1910, maxY= 990
0:00:43.20 1920x1088 1.78 minX=  10, minY=  10, maxX=1902, maxY=1078
0:03:43.08 1920x1088 2.30 minX=  10, minY= 130, maxX=1910, maxY= 958
0:04:08.91 1920x1088 1.78 minX=  10, minY=  10, maxX=1910, maxY=1078
0:04:38.94 1920x1088 2.17 minX=  10, minY= 114, maxX=1910, maxY= 982
0:05:24.02 1920x1088 1.78 minX=  10, minY=  10, maxX=1910, maxY=1078
0:05:39.03 1920x1088 2.88 minX=  10, minY= 218, maxX=1910, maxY= 878
0:05:56.38 1920x1088 2.57 minX=  10, minY= 178, maxX=1910, maxY= 918
0:06:09.03 1280x 720 1.39 minX= 154, minY=  10, maxX=1126, maxY= 710
0:07:09.26 1920x1088 1.78 minX=  10, minY=  10, maxX=1910, maxY=1078
0:07:19.37 1920x1088 2.07 minX=  10, minY=  82, maxX=1910, maxY=1006
0:07:23.94 1920x1088 1.78 minX=  10, minY=  10, maxX=1910, maxY=1078
0:21:02.16 1920x1088 2.17 minX=  10, minY= 106, maxX=1910, maxY= 982
0:21:32.09 1920x1088 1.78 minX=  10, minY=  10, maxX=1910, maxY=1078
0:23:06.01 1920x1088 2.17 minX=  10, minY= 106, maxX=1910, maxY= 982
0:23:32.04 1280x 720 1.39 minX= 154, minY=  10, maxX=1126, maxY= 710
0:24:32.07 1920x1088 1.78 minX=  10, minY=  10, maxX=1910, maxY=1078

Is this consistent with your view?

So this seems to be a recording from a 1080i HD channel? What I find interesting is that twice it seems to drop down to 720p, but the aspect ratio of the 720p segments is 4:3.

I'm not sure how to read the information though - it's not clear how the timestamp correlates to the aspect ratio info. But the AR's listed seem reasonable assuming that the tool that creates it is looking for black pillars or letterboxing and removing it.

1.78 is the main show, and normal full screen HD stuff. 2.x is probably commercials with letterboxed HD - very common (you see it a lot on movie ads). And then the 1.39 I'm assuming is pillarboxed HD....

btl.

[bialio]

Originally Posted by Humanzee

The one that is missing is when an HD channel broadcasts a 4:3 ratio video but that video only has 16:9 content so you get this little bit of content in the middle of your screen. Rare but it does happen.

Yeah - I don't worry about that one because it's rare that actual shows are broadcast like that - at least not shows that I watch. Lots of commercials are broadcast that way though.

The output file that Erik and Jere have come up with should allow for a plug in developer, such as the all mighty Nielm , to be create / update a plug-in to follow a custom dynamically sized ratio box that follows the actual content displayed in the video from scene to commercial etc. The trick then would be to get a 5th aspect ratio option, or designate one of the existing that could have its zoom levels dynamically updated while watching so that the content always fits the screen. + or - some border clipping if desired.

I think the real route here is to have a plugin similar to the Auto Aspect Ratio Switcher that switches between the 4 default AR's (Fill, Source, 16x9, 4x3) on the fly - using the output from Erik and Jere's file, along with some rules specified by the user.

By rules I mean something like "for Source Resolution + AR pair, use this AR.
ie
HD + 1.78, use "Source"
HD + 1.33, use "4:3"
SD + 1.78, use "16:9"
SD + 1.33, use "Fill"

I don't think it would be useful to zoom in on the source picture data without respect to the geometry of the picture. ie get rid of the black bars and then fit the actual picture data to the screen. Stretch-o-vision - both the horizontal version we all love to hate and a new exciting vertical version - would be fairly common.

btl.

[Humanzee]

Originally Posted by bialio

I don't think it would be useful to zoom in on the source picture data without respect to the geometry of the picture. ie get rid of the black bars and then fit the actual picture data to the screen. Stretch-o-vision - both the horizontal version we all love to hate and a new exciting vertical version - would be fairly common.

btl.

Well, that was my poor choice of working. Substitute scale for zoom. I don't like streached content either. Any automatic switching between the existing AR's, like you have illustratied, using those files would be a great start. Making a more involved pixel accurate scale/zoom plugin could come later. We may find it super annoying to have the AR changing all the time anyway, who knows. We will have to wait and see.

[erik]

Originally Posted by bialio

So this seems to be a recording from a 1080i HD channel? What I find interesting is that twice it seems to drop down to 720p, but the aspect ratio of the 720p segments is 4:3.

Indeed, the 720P segment is upconverted SD, hence its 4:3

[davidk21770]

I'm seeing a lot of 16:9 content on the 4:3 channels -- top and bottom black bars. Especially in some of the non-premium movie channels. I'd love a way to zoom this to it's true 16:9 and have the top and bottom bars removed or reduced as appropriate. NOT anamorphic -- correct aspect zoom.

I'd also love a way to correct channels like TNT that are just a little off <sigh>. A way to make a small stretch or shrink -- one dimension should do it. You'd think that the "professionals" could get it right, but they don't. I don't want to use Sage's because it affects everything and is a pain to adjust.

[ke6guj]

Originally Posted by davidk21770

I'm seeing a lot of 16:9 content on the 4:3 channels -- top and bottom black bars. Especially in some of the non-premium movie channels. I'd love a way to zoom this to it's true 16:9 and have the top and bottom bars removed or reduced as appropriate. NOT anamorphic -- correct aspect zoom.

Are you running a 16:9 set or a 4:3 set? If a 16:9 set, when you watch taht 16:9 content recording in 4:3, you end up with top/bottom bars and left/right bars? If so, set up an aspect ratio with 133% zoom in both horizontal and vertical. That should pretty much zoom in correctly and get rid of the postage stamping.

I'd also love a way to correct channels like TNT that are just a little off <sigh>. A way to make a small stretch or shrink -- one dimension should do it. You'd think that the "professionals" could get it right, but they don't. I don't want to use Sage's because it affects everything and is a pain to adjust.

One nice thing with SageMC is that you can easily adjust the aspect ratio settings via the OPtions pop-up menu instead of having to go into Detailed Setup and doing the adjustments in there.

[erik]

Originally Posted by bialio

I'm not sure how to read the information though - it's not clear how the timestamp correlates to the aspect ratio info.

Each line contains the following information

• Starting time stamp of a aspect ratio segment
• The video resolution as encoded in MPEG of this segment
• The calculated aspect ratio of the active video of this segment
• The min/max X/Y coordinates of the active video in this segment

So the aspect ratio is calculated from the detected active video, and not from the encoded resolution.

[davidk21770]

Originally Posted by ke6guj

Are you running a 16:9 set or a 4:3 set? If a 16:9 set, when you watch taht 16:9 content recording in 4:3, you end up with top/bottom bars and left/right bars? If so, set up an aspect ratio with 133% zoom in both horizontal and vertical. That should pretty much zoom in correctly and get rid of the postage stamping.

Actually, my TV handles this fine (it's a high def 4:3 that automatically switches based on input frequencies). It's for when I'm watching on my widescreen monitor. 4:3 content is narrow. I'd like a way to throw away the top and bottom black bars so that it'll fill the screen (properly). Thinking about it, this may be too much to ask...

Originally Posted by ke6guj

One nice thing with SageMC is that you can easily adjust the aspect ratio settings via the OPtions pop-up menu instead of having to go into Detailed Setup and doing the adjustments in there.

I tried Sage MC a while back and it was missing a lot of features that I don't want to do without (it didn't have the menu formats that I used). These may have been incorporated by now, but my wife has since started using sage and she doesn't take well to changes... .