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Hardware Support Discussions related to using various hardware setups with SageTV products. Anything relating to capture cards, remotes, infrared receivers/transmitters, system compatibility or other hardware related problems or suggestions should be posted here.

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  #1  
Old 10-07-2005, 04:23 PM
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roofus roofus is offline
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List of bad motherboard chipsets for hauppauge 150/500

Hello all, it seems to be common knowledge that some VIA chipsets cause serious issues with hauppauge 150/500 cards. This post is for you to post a chipset you know is incompatible with these cards, including but not limited to VIA chipsets. I hope enough people contribute to this to get it stickied, this is an important topic for people building sageTV systems around these cards.

Running list:
VIA KT133 - 500MCE
VIA KT266 - v15 250
VIA KT333 - 500 MCE
VIA KT400 - 500MCE
VIA KM400A - 150
VIA K8T800 PRO - 500MCE
VIA K8M800 - 150

These chipsets should be incompatible with both the 150 & 500, because they are essentially the same card. I'm posting the card that the chipset was reported not to work with just incase one works and the other doesn't.

Last edited by roofus; 10-19-2005 at 05:55 PM.
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  #2  
Old 10-07-2005, 04:24 PM
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I have confirmed that the VIA KT333 chipset causes serious issues with the 500MCE.
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  #3  
Old 10-07-2005, 04:26 PM
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Another user here is having serious issues with a VIA KM400A and a 150 card.
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  #4  
Old 10-07-2005, 06:54 PM
src666 src666 is offline
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Avoid VIA chipsets, period. They've had problems with their PCI bus for years, and have never fixed them, even in the latest chips. As soon as you start pumping large, constant streams of data, the system will lock or reboot.
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  #5  
Old 10-07-2005, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by src666
Avoid VIA chipsets, period. They've had problems with their PCI bus for years, and have never fixed them, even in the latest chips. As soon as you start pumping large, constant streams of data, the system will lock or reboot.
This is for more than just VIA chipsets, and it'd be better for the consumer if they can say, hey if i buy this card it won't work because i have this chipset. I've seen many users request specific chipsets because they wanna know if their chipset is the problem before upgrading.

Also, it'd be nice for all of use to be able to just avoid VIA, but when you go into the set top box realm, you will find your self down almost nothing but their boards.

VIA makes crappy chipsets yes, but not all of the new ones have issues with these cards. It'd be nice for people to be able to buy ITX boards for set top boxes.

Last edited by roofus; 10-07-2005 at 07:22 PM.
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  #6  
Old 10-08-2005, 10:03 AM
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It is interesting that the PVR 500 and 150 had issues while the PVR 250 did not.

I do not believe it has to do with the amount of data as much as an incomplete implementation of the PCI interface. My PVR 500 could not record for more than 15 minutes even just recording from one tuner at min bit rate. Also it depends on if a motherboard manufacturer has patched the chipset implementation in the firmware to over come deficiencies in the chipset. I think I read somewhere that a KT333 mother board worked fine with the PVR 500 while yours did not.

I had to move to a NVidia based mother board to get my PVR 500 to work, but the same system had no issue with 4 PVR 250 cards simultaneous pumping Max Bit rate data to disk. I had a VIA KT400 based motherboard and now my nForce2 based board works great with 4 PVR 250s and a PVR 500.

John
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  #7  
Old 10-08-2005, 03:22 PM
src666 src666 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roofus
This is for more than just VIA chipsets, and it'd be better for the consumer if they can say, hey if i buy this card it won't work because i have this chipset. I've seen many users request specific chipsets because they wanna know if their chipset is the problem before upgrading.

Also, it'd be nice for all of use to be able to just avoid VIA, but when you go into the set top box realm, you will find your self down almost nothing but their boards.

VIA makes crappy chipsets yes, but not all of the new ones have issues with these cards. It'd be nice for people to be able to buy ITX boards for set top boxes.
Well, in my experience with VIA motherboards, and I have had 3 due to the great featureset they usually come with, they are all to be avoided. Maybe their latest releases have finally fixed the problems, but I wouldn't bet my own money on finding out.

The troubles extend beyond add-in cards. Even the on-board networking can cause them to choke. I can't count the number of times I was doing large scale transfers between my machines, just to have them lock up in the middle. And I'm talking about 100MBit speeds, not Gigabit. The same goes for copying files between drives that were on different host controllers.

In my experience VIA boards just can't handle steady heavy data streams under any but the most limited of circumstances. I have no grudge against the company, but I will steer everyone I can away from motherbards using their chipsets until they finally get it right.
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  #8  
Old 10-08-2005, 04:32 PM
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dbfresh23 dbfresh23 is offline
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Sorry to go against the grain, but this is nonsense. The reason you are having problems with VIA chipset mainboards is either due to configuration error or use of a low quality(MFGR) board. I have used 2 PVR150s in 3 different VIA based boards - KT133, KT333 and KT600. If you are having issues with a VIA based board I'd suggest rather then bashing them here you should go consult an experienced technician.

I have also used these same cards in a Dell Poweredge SC420 Server and I did not notice one bit of difference in functionality.

I have been using VIA based motherboards starting from their MVP series (early socket 7) and I have never had a problem that i could attribute to the chipset. Have you even tried installing their 4-1 chipset drivers or are you just using the standard MS drivers that get installed with windows?
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  #9  
Old 10-08-2005, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbfresh23
Sorry to go against the grain, but this is nonsense.
You can go against the grain, but it's not nonsense.

Quote:
The reason you are having problems with VIA chipset mainboards is either due to configuration error or use of a low quality(MFGR) board.
Is MSI a low quality board? People have problems with VIA boards from about every mfg.

Quote:
I have used 2 PVR150s in 3 different VIA based boards - KT133, KT333 and KT600. If you are having issues with a VIA based board I'd suggest rather then bashing them here you should go consult an experienced technician.
Perhaps you should research the history of VIA's PCI implimentation troubles, as near as I can tell, every VIA chipset has had problems with the PCI implimentation. They have problems with RAID cards, sound cards, TV cards, etc.

Quote:
I have also used these same cards in a Dell Poweredge SC420 Server and I did not notice one bit of difference in functionality.
Dell doesn't sell VIA chipsets. At least not in their servers.

Quote:
I have been using VIA based motherboards starting from their MVP series (early socket 7) and I have never had a problem that i could attribute to the chipset. Have you even tried installing their 4-1 chipset drivers or are you just using the standard MS drivers that get installed with windows?
All I can say is you've been lucky. I dread the phrase "4 in 1 drivers", they're supposed to fix everything but rarely do, I'll be happy if I never have to use them again.

Let's see if I can go down the list, I've had:
Abit BE6 (i440BX)
Abit KA7 (VIA KX133)
MSI K7T266 Pro2 (VIA KT266)
Abit BE7 (i845 PE)
Abit NF8 (nForce3)
Abit NF7-S2G (nForce2)

And VIA chipsets are not bad until you start piling PCI devices in them, then you have trouble. All my Intel/nVidia based boards have been flawless, everything else has been troublesome.
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  #10  
Old 10-08-2005, 05:11 PM
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dbfresh23 dbfresh23 is offline
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I know Dell doesn't sell VIA based systems, that was my point. There was no difference between an Intel Chip and 3 VIA chips.

FYI - My current desktop has a VIA KT600 and has EVERY PCI slot full!

PCI1 - Xcard
PCI2 - PVR150
PCI3 - PVR150
PCI4 - SBLIVE
PCI5 - Extreme G PCI Wireless

Last edited by dbfresh23; 10-08-2005 at 05:20 PM.
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  #11  
Old 10-08-2005, 05:34 PM
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dbfresh23

There are indeed well known problems with via, sis, and ali chipsets and the pvr 500. Hauppauge has made statements about it and the motherboard manufacturer's have released updated bios's and patches in an attempt to correct the problem. The fixes have helped some people's problem while others are still suffering through them. I know Asus boards have suffered the same problem and IMO they're some of the better boards made. They definetly aren't low grade.

Here's a thread if you don't believe it. I imagine if you do a search there you'll find other instances of the problem as well.

http://www.hauppauge.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=2212
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  #12  
Old 10-08-2005, 05:35 PM
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jptaz jptaz is offline
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Add These "Low" Quality Manufacutures to the list of bad apples.

I also had the Abit KA7 (VIA KX133)

Giga-Byte GA-7VRXP (VIA KT400) - Had Disk drive performance issues - I broke it then - my buddy got it fixed and he had the problems with the PVR-500
Giga-Byte GA-7VAXP (VIA KT400) - PVR 500 would not work in this
Giga-Byte GA-7N400Pro2 (NVidia nForce2) - has been perfect and I am using every PCI slot, and Every Hard Drive Controller and Interface on the board.

I tried every 4 in 1 Driver set I could get my hands on for the KT400 including some unsupported tweaks for PCI latency issues, but to no avail.

I kmow some people who have probelm with their home brew computers through in $20 no name memory from a swap meet or a $20 case including power supply, but that is not me. I have always put name brand, high quality memory, power and other components. I learned my lesson the hard way on my first home brew 10 years ago with an Asus motherboard that I put the crappiest power supply, video card, and memory, and horrible power supply that was so far out of spec it constantly rebooted.

Oh yeah...and just so you know what I went through when I first got the PVR 500..It clearly shows I was just bashing VIA chipsets and didn't try any reasonable steps to trouble shoot the problem...

http://forums.freytechnologies.com/f...pvr+500+reboot
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  #13  
Old 10-08-2005, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbfresh23
I know Dell doesn't sell VIA based systems, that was my point. There was no difference between an Intel Chip and 3 VIA chips.
The fact that something works in both proves nothing. I would expect everything to work in an Intel motherboard. Not everyone has problems with VIA systems, however VIA boards have a disproportionately high portion of problems.

Quote:
FYI - My current desktop has a VIA KT600 and has EVERY PCI slot full!

PCI1 - Xcard
PCI2 - PVR150
PCI3 - PVR150
PCI4 - SBLIVE
PCI5 - Extreme G PCI Wireless
You truely are blessed (I realize you aren't running a 686B southbridge, but still):
http://kxproject.lugosoft.com/686b.php?language=en
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/04..._via_chipsets/

Just some examples of the known problems. Note that you basically NEVER hear anything link this with Intel chipsets or more recent nVidia ones. The thing that really bugs me, is despite all these recurring problems, hardware sites still blindly recommend VIA. They apparently never load the PCI bus of their test machines, nor do they run them long enough to see them. Hence VIA basically gets a pass despite it's poor PCI implimentation.
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  #14  
Old 10-08-2005, 06:11 PM
dagar dagar is offline
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I never had any troubles with my CLE266 chipset on my EPIA board

but I did with 2 KT133 and KT266 boards (grumble).

I recall that my KT266 had SB troubles as well.
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  #15  
Old 10-08-2005, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dagar
I never had any troubles with my CLE266 chipset on my EPIA board
Considering you can't add much of anything to an EPIA board, I'd hope so
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  #16  
Old 10-09-2005, 12:53 PM
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roofus roofus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dagar
I never had any troubles with my CLE266 chipset on my EPIA board

but I did with 2 KT133 and KT266 boards (grumble).

I recall that my KT266 had SB troubles as well.
What card/cards were you using so i can add it to the list?

P.S. I had problems with newer soundblaster drivers and the KT333 as well, they cause jittering and stuttering, but the microsoft drivers worked fine, cept they kill the functionality of it.
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  #17  
Old 10-10-2005, 06:57 PM
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Please, this post was not intended to refuel the debate on VIA chipsets. It's for people to post known bad chipsets. Please, try and respect that.
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  #18  
Old 10-10-2005, 08:59 PM
pjaffray pjaffray is offline
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ASUS A8V Deluxe (Chipset is VIA K8T800 PRO) without PVR500 worked rock stable. Add the PVR500 and I got a crash happy boat anchor. I can't say I tried everything because I don't know what everything is. I tried everything reasonable that I could think of and never achieved any success.

MSI K8N NEO2 (Chipset is Nvidia nForce 3 Ultra) is working great after a couple of days with the PVR500 installed (and SAGE v3) and has not had a single stability issue.

For me the ASUS based system was an expensive lesson in DIY computers. It makes a great machine for the wife, but I never expected to build two machines. While I would use an ASUS board again in the future, I will for sure avoid any VIA chipset.

pdj
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  #19  
Old 10-11-2005, 12:49 PM
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My old mobo (EPIA VIA M10000) also gave problems with my PVR-350. I had delay between the video and sound which was solved after a BIOS update (????).

But I wonder if the motherboards are the main problem when using Hauppauge cards. In my opinion the Hauppauge drivers are most of the time the routcause of problems(!)
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  #20  
Old 10-14-2005, 06:13 AM
oggie oggie is offline
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I have an ecs k8m800-m2 which has the via k8m800 chipset.

I have a twinhan 102g dvb-s card, soundblaster live 5.1, ti4200 agp, and a pvr-150.

If the 150 is not in the box, everything works great. Once it's installed, and I'm using the twinhan card, and heavy network traffic locks the onboard ethernet up to the point I have to remove all power.

I've tried different power supplies, different slots, different letency values, and still the same results.....
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