Cable Card vs. QAM Card

[phenixdragon]

Originally Posted by blade

I didn't think CableCARD itself was a tuner. Even if you have the card you still need a tuner that is physically capable of tuning to the desired frequency. From my understanding the card plugs into the TV and allows the tuner in the TV to view the encrypted channels.

Technically isn’t not a tuner but just gives you access, but you would plug it into the tuner being an external box or a TV.

But I think the FCC is requiring all cable companies to support it by I think July of 2006 which also would require them to support any device that could use CableCARD including Windows MCE. But they are pushing for 18 more months but I think the cable companies will fail because there are more names pushing it not to be given 18 more months. Actually from what I have read everyone who is not a cable company (such as HP, Dell, Microsoft, TiVo, etc...) are pushing it to be forced at the deadline. Cable companies are lying to the FCC about how CableCARD does not help the user experience TV any better which everyone knows CableCARD not being out is hurting them at this point. In fact, I myself maybe drop my whole media center for DirecTVs new media center once it is released because it will do everything I want it to do. 1 media center and extenders on each TV. And each show being recorded in pure digital format, HDTV also, and no analog conversion.

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by phenixdragon

Who are you referring too because I know what CableCARD is.

I just never have seen a PCI card tuner to all the channels like Sanger is talking about.

Here's what Stanger's card can do:
MDP-130 includes a QAM capable tuner that allows you to tune unencrypted HDTV signals from your cable service. The MDP-130 is connected to the coaxial connection directly to the RF input of the card much like tuning for over-the-air service. Unencrypted HDTV generally consists of the local broadcasts (ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, PBS) which are sent in the clear as mandated by the FCC for all cable services and does not include any of the premium services which require a cable box provided by the cable service. Output from the cable box via Component or DVI/HDMI output cannot be captured by the MDP-130 or any other consumer device on the market today.

What he has referred in a post above is to getting and recording is all the HDTV channels that are on his cable line. And not that he can watch them all. What he doesn't say he can get are all the other digital braodcast channels that AREN'T HDTV.

You haven't seen a PCI tuner that can tune to all of the digital stations that a cable company broadcasts because there isn't one. Once they introduce the CableCard it will be with a PCI card that has a tuner that supports all 400 or 1,000 stations or whatever it is that a cable company braodcasts. Today you just have analog tuners, HDTV tuners that support ATSC OTA and tuners like Stanger's. It will pick up all the HDTV broadcasts but it doesn't tune to every single digital channel that is on his cable. Even today some TVs are just now coming with a tuner that supports HDTV and DigitalTV with a CableCard slot.(Correct me if I'm wrong.)

Here's another explanation from Digital Connection:
The situation has added confusion to the market with consumers having to make purchasing decisions based on the type of subscription service they choose. With cable subscribers making up bulk of the viewers in the US today, service providers have opted to "lease" the HDTV Tuner equipment. Unlike satellite providers that often include an OTA tuner for local broadcasts necessitating an installation of both a dish and satellite dish, cable providers have chosen to include the local channels on their cable lines using QAM. The FCC has mandated that the locals provided on cable service be unencrypted to allow subscribers to receive these HDTV services with an over the counter QAM tuner, although all premium channels and subscription services are provided only through use of the Cable Card system available only through approved hardware manufacturers. The current version of the Cable Card is a one way model which does not allow for communications required to provide a guide service or Pay-Per-View purchase options, but next generation of the Cable Card will provide these features.


Gerry

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by gplasky

Here's what Stanger's card can do:
MDP-130 includes a QAM capable tuner that allows you to tune unencrypted HDTV signals from your cable service.

Technically it can tune any QAM 64, QAM 256, or 8VSB signal that falls in it's frequency range. That includes all digital cable stations, and all HD digital cable stations.

What I think is throwing off Phoenix, is that digital is a bit different than analog in that there can be a big difference between "tuning" something, and actually being able to "access" it. Also the software used by the card will affect whether it will let you see that the encrypted ones are there.

The MyHD (or any QAM tuner for that matter) can tune all the QAM stations available. When doing a channel scan, the MyHD will show you pretty much all of them because some part of the stream (usually padding or some such nonsense ) is not encrypted.

What the MyHD (or any other PC QAM tuner) can't do, is access any of the encrypted content. With the MyHD, all you get is a black screen.

What CableCard is, is a system, that uses a normal QAM tuner (such as the MyHD, Fusion, A180's tuners) to tune the channels, and the CC provides access to those channels.

FWIW, my best "luck" with my MyHD tuning QAM was getting Discovery HD Theater, ESPN HD, HDnet Movies, and HDnet. All of which were nice while they lasted, but I either cought them just as they added them and before they started encrypting them, or they ran them unencrypted as a sort of "free trial" thing. Last time I scanned, I only got a handfull of (rather lame mostly) SD digital cable channels.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by gplasky

You haven't seen a PCI tuner that can tune to all of the digital stations that a cable company broadcasts because there isn't one. Once they introduce the CableCard it will be with a PCI card that has a tuner that supports all 400 or 1,000 stations or whatever it is that a cable company braodcasts. Today you just have analog tuners, HDTV tuners that support ATSC OTA and tuners like Stanger's. It will pick up all the HDTV broadcasts but it doesn't tune to every single digital channel that is on his cable. Even today some TVs are just now coming with a tuner that supports HDTV and DigitalTV with a CableCard slot.(Correct me if I'm wrong.)

Just to avoid confusion. Current QAM cards can "tune" anything that's available on a modulation scheme they support (QAM 64, QAM 256, 8VSB) and in their frequency range ( RF channels <= 125 ). And, AFIAK, all (or at least probably 99.9%) digital cable channels fall into both those categories.

CableCard will not change the modulation or frequency locations. CableCard is simply a standard Access Mechanism to encrypted digital cable. CableCard is exactly analogus to CAM for DVB. It's just a way to access the content.

I suppose I'm probably nit-picking, since it's all kind of academic, after all we may need new cards with the CableCard interface on them. But they will simply allow access.

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Just to avoid confusion. Current QAM cards can "tune" anything that's available on a modulation scheme they support (QAM 64, QAM 256, 8VSB) and in their frequency range ( RF channels <= 125 ). And, AFIAK, all (or at least probably 99.9%) digital cable channels fall into both those categories.

I guess that was my point. I have Pay (HBO) and Digital TV stations in the channel#200 to 499 range. I don't see your tuner capable of picking up these stations. So when I said:

Originally Posted by gplasky

You haven't seen a PCI tuner that can tune to all of the digital stations that a cable company broadcasts because there isn't one.

That's whay I was referring to. I would think you would need to purchase a new TV tuner card that can tune that high and also accept a CableCard into it.

Gerry

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by gplasky

I guess that was my point. I have Pay (HBO) and Digital TV stations in the channel#200 to 499 range.

HDnet Movies and HDnet (on our provider) is channel 804 and 805, while they were unencrypted my MyHD picked them up just fine. Why? Because they are broadcast on 76.1 and 76.2. There are essentailly NO channels that are broadcast beyond RF 125. All digitial channels are broadcast on frequencies that map to "physical" channels <= 125.

The PSIP (Program and System Information Protocol) data embedded in the transport stream contains a VCT (Virtual Channel Table) which includes a bunch of info including Station Name, and the Virtual Channel number of each of the subchannels. Using the VCT the provider "simplifies" the user experience by, basically, renaming channels from "76.1" to "804" as people are used to simple channel numbers. The whole xx.y thing would probably result in a bunch of support calls.

OTA ATSC stations are doing the same thing. Our "big 3" reside on Physical Channels 51, 52, and 55. However when you tune them in something like the Avermedia app (or MyHD) they show up as 2, 7, and 9. It's the same thing. In the world of digital TV, the "channel" you tune has little or nothing to do with what frequency it is actually broadcast on.

The only thing stopping us from viewing all the digital cable channels today with current hardware, is the encryption. And that is what CableCard is meant to address. The encryption/access part of the equation.

[gplasky]

OK-makes sense.
I've been thinking about getting an HDTV card. But knowing that CableCard is coming soon and QAM64 and QAM256 is available on some cards it just makes it real difficult to answer the "Do I get it now or wait?" and "Which one do I get?" Plus knowing I can get a DVR from the Cable Company that will record the HD channels makes it even more difficult.

Gerry

[stanger89]

If your local channels are worth it, go for it. But locals are about all you can expect to get in the clear over cable. It's really hit-or-miss at this point.

As for CableCard, I wouldn't say it's coming "soon" to the PC, it won't happen before Vista.

Right now if you can get your locals OTA just fine, I wouldn't bother. If you check and can get cool channels (Discovery, HDnet, InHD, etc) in the clear, I'd jump on it though.

[rsagetv99]

Actually for me my locals are worth it because my teams games are being broadcast on FOX (go Bucs!). I just went and upgraded my service to get an HDTV DVR from Brighthouse, pretty much just for the locals. I have been having some bad stuttering problems with SAGE, so initially I had tried an OTA HD STB, but I only got 3 HD channels with my indoor antenna, and I did not feel like going through the hassle of installing/tweaking an outdoor antenna.

Does anyone know if there is a QAM capable STB?

[salsbst]

Anything that your cable company gives you is a QAM STB.

And none of them will help you record HD with SageTV unless you use the Firewire hack.

[rsagetv99]

Originally Posted by salsbst

Anything that your cable company gives you is a QAM STB.

And none of them will help you record HD with SageTV unless you use the Firewire hack.

Right, but I was thinking of one that I did not have to lease, not one from the cable company.

I actually managed to get a HD DVR with firewire ports, but I have not had a chance to try the hack.

[src666]

Cablecards won't generally be available for sale. They will be rented to the customer just like cable boxes are.