Utility: ShowAnalyzer Beta

[mkanet]

I just found out that the settings that come with ShowAnalyzer are not configured to work correctly. I'm not sure what settings I'm supposed to use, so I ended up using what Toricred posted on the dragon global forum for showanalyzer. I'm not sure if this is the best settings for very basic ATSC mpeg2 recordings or not. I'm guessing anything would be an improvement over the default settings. Hopefully, my expectations for reliable commercial detection isn't unrealistic. If anyone has a global.conf that works even better than Toricred's settings, please post here.

[Fuzzy]

There are too many variances between channels for a default config to work reliably all the time. It'll usually take a few custom configs, depending ont he channel the show was recorded on, and each tweaked a bit. Just something like the level of the 'black' used between commercials is enough to throw it off.

[mkanet]

Oh okay, so, which custom config should I use? I dont really have the time to tinker with this any more than I have. The only channels I watch with commercials are the major TV networks and a few common cable channels like TBS, etc; nothing out of the ordinary. Hopefully there's a way to make this work reliably on common channels at least using a good config file. If it requires on going tweaking on my part, this is definitely not meant for me.

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

There are too many variances between channels for a default config to work reliably all the time. It'll usually take a few custom configs, depending ont he channel the show was recorded on, and each tweaked a bit. Just something like the level of the 'black' used between commercials is enough to throw it off.

[Fuzzy]

honestly, I just stick with the default, as accuracy isnt' really that important for me.. i don't use auto-skip, and they are more there to aid in manual skipping... I'm not aware of any easily avialable preconfigured settings.. though there may be a thread or two either here or on the dragon-global forums.

[mkanet]

Aha! Now the truth comes out. I had a feeling thats where it would come down to. Not exactly what the Dragon Global website wants to admit to. Well, at least I gave it my best shot. Im still debating on whether to have inaccurate commercial detection or none at all.

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

honestly, I just stick with the default, as accuracy isnt' really that important for me.. i don't use auto-skip, and they are more there to aid in manual skipping... I'm not aware of any easily avialable preconfigured settings.. though there may be a thread or two either here or on the dragon-global forums.

[Fuzzy]

Years ago, I did go through and tweak each of the settings, and DID have what I considered perfect accuracy, it is possible, and really doesn't take that long. I just have since changed providers, and upgraded to HD, and after those changes, never went back and redid the work. There IS a 'Successful Settings' forums on the dragon-global page, but it's currently empty. Just make sure if you DO get something working perfect, you post it up.. ;-)

[nyplayer]

Originally Posted by mkanet

Oh okay, so, which custom config should I use? I dont really have the time to tinker with this any more than I have. The only channels I watch with commercials are the major TV networks and a few common cable channels like TBS, etc; nothing out of the ordinary. Hopefully there's a way to make this work reliably on common channels at least using a good config file. If it requires on going tweaking on my part, this is definitely not meant for me.

Here is a simple change that I made that works on the broadcast stations.

output.dvrmstoolbox.enable_automatic_cleanup=false 
output.dvrmstoolbox.when="Never" 
output.smartskip.when="Never" 
output.txt.when="Never" 
analyzer.classifier.length.commercial.maximum.individual=125 
analyzer.classifier.length.pseudocommercial.maximum.individual=125 
analyzer.automark.beginning.mark_as="1" 
analyzer.automark.beginning.length=60 
analyzer.automark.end.mark_as="1" 
analyzer.automark.end.length=300

[stanger89]

I to just stick with the defaults, but IMO the results are very accurate except for some of the more exotic channels.

[mkanet]

Stanger89, when you say it's very accurate, do you mean relatively speaking where it messes up somewhat regularly; but, still comes relatively close? Or, do you mean it skips over commercials pretty much perfectly within a second accuracy almost every time on popular major network TV shows? If it actually works perfectly for you on the default settings, I would like to know what you did differently than me.

I would be happy if it even worked correctly 90% of the time. To me, that would definitely be worth the money. Unfortunately, with the defaults, more often than not, it shows parts of commercials. If I had to guess, I'd say SA makes about 40%-60% correct guesses even on the easiest possible file formats (ATSC mpeg2 720p) on major network TV shows.

I am currently trying a couple of settings that are posted (like nyplayer's post) to see if that will make SA work good enough for me to keep.

I'm sure there will be people that may disagree (especially for those people that have this feature enabled and paid for SA/Comskip); but, I cant help but feel that Comskip/SA is more of hobbyist experimental feature than a every-day real use feature my family or guests can depend on any day. Hopefully, I'll see a dramatic improvement with some of the settings changed.

BTW: I appreciate all the help from everyone. I'm crossing my fingers that I'll have more success with this after changing the settings. It would be a great feature to have it if actually works correctly.

Originally Posted by stanger89

I to just stick with the defaults, but IMO the results are very accurate except for some of the more exotic channels.

[nyplayer]

I found the default settings to be terrible ...half the show was marked as commercials before I made the changes.

[mkanet]

This is encouraging. Thats exactly what happened to me.

I just loaded Torcrid's "successful" settings from the SA forum and corrected a few settings so they would match yours. I'll post back later with the results.

Originally Posted by nyplayer

I found the default settings to be terrible ...half the show was marked as commercials before I made the changes.

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by mkanet

If I had to guess, I'd say SA makes about 40%-60% correct guesses even on the easiest possible file formats (ATSC mpeg2 720p) on major network TV shows.

There really is not such thing as a "easy format". Commercial detection is a very complicated process and the tv networks continue to make sure it is. changing length of commercials putting logo up during commercials etc etc. This is not something TV networks want so expecting spot on will not happen.

Originally Posted by mkanet

I'm sure there will be people that may disagree (especially for those people that have this feature enabled and paid for SA/Comskip); but, I cant help but feel that Comskip/SA is more of hobbyist experimental feature than a every-day real use feature my family or guests can depend on any day. Hopefully, I'll see a dramatic improvement with some of the settings changed.

I will be the first of those people. Me and my wife/ family cannot live without commercial detection is it spot on, no but far better to just have to skip foward or back a couple of seconds then skip the entire commercial. It is an every day use for many many households. I don't know what you were expecting but more than meets mine and most needs.

[mkanet]

Setting aside the complex process of commercial detections; I'm just expecting it to do what it advertises as doing... skipping just the commercials; not using it as a guideline of where the commercials might be. Having said that, maybe with the help of others' settings, I'm optimistic that I can get it to work good enough where its closer to what's advertised here: http://www.dragonglobal.biz/showanalyzer.html

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

I don't know what you were expecting but more than meets mine and most needs.

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by mkanet

Setting aside the complex process of commercial detections; I'm just expecting it to do what it advertises as doing... skipping just the commercials; not using it as a guideline of where the commercials might be. Having said that, maybe with the help of others' settings, I'm optimistic that I can get it to work good enough where its closer to what's advertised here: http://www.dragonglobal.biz/showanalyzer.html

Yeah but also at the bottom of that it states clearly

"The truth is that accurately detecting commercials is hard and the networks are constantly trying to make it harder. The SchoolHouse was written to make fine tuning the results easier and much, much faster. Before the SchoolHouse was around, tuning was a long and painful process. Now, it is an easy and quick process."

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by mkanet

Stanger89, when you say it's very accurate, do you mean relatively speaking where it messes up somewhat regularly; but, still comes relatively close? Or, do you mean it skips over commercials pretty much perfectly within a second accuracy almost every time on popular major network TV shows? If it actually works perfectly for you on the default settings, I would like to know what you did differently than me.

I mean that on say "non-news-channels" most of the time it's within a couple seconds of the commercial (within 10 maybe) most of the time.

I would be happy if it even worked correctly 90% of the time. To me, that would definitely be worth the money. Unfortunately, with the defaults, more often than not, it shows parts of commercials. If I had to guess, I'd say SA makes about 40%-60% correct guesses even on the easiest possible file formats (ATSC mpeg2 720p) on major network TV shows.

What do you mean by "shows parts of commercials" exactly? I mean I see that all the time, maybe catch the last 5-10seconds of the commercial brake, but part of that is the differences (inaccuracies?) in how Sage figures time and seeks vs SA.

I'm sure there will be people that may disagree (especially for those people that have this feature enabled and paid for SA/Comskip); but, I cant help but feel that Comskip/SA is more of hobbyist experimental feature than a every-day real use feature my family or guests can depend on any day. Hopefully, I'll see a dramatic improvement with some of the settings changed.

I'm not exactly sure what you're expecting, I mean there's no way I'd trust either enough to (for example) automatically cut commercials with, but I definitely find it more useful than not. I usually leave auto-skipping disabled but that's as much because Sage seems to count time a little slower than SA, and thus tends to skip early cutting off the show and returning before the break is over, but it's no more than a few seconds, usually less than a 10s skip.

[mkanet]

Oh okay, that explains a lot. So what youre seeing is not much different than what I'm seeing with the default settings. I guess I just have a different way of looking at it.

Originally Posted by stanger89

I mean that on say "non-news-channels" most of the time it's within a couple seconds of the commercial (within 10 maybe) most of the time.



What do you mean by "shows parts of commercials" exactly? I mean I see that all the time, maybe catch the last 5-10seconds of the commercial brake, but part of that is the differences (inaccuracies?) in how Sage figures time and seeks vs SA.



I'm not exactly sure what you're expecting, I mean there's no way I'd trust either enough to (for example) automatically cut commercials with, but I definitely find it more useful than not. I usually leave auto-skipping disabled but that's as much because Sage seems to count time a little slower than SA, and thus tends to skip early cutting off the show and returning before the break is over, but it's no more than a few seconds, usually less than a 10s skip.

[stanger89]

So you're getting ~90%+ of commercial breaks marked to within 1 skip (10s) or so?

When I think of inaccuracies it's things like entire commercials (30s+) or entire breaks being missed or large (30s+) chunks of shows being marked and that happens very very rarely in my experience.

Frankly I think for most shows SA does a better job marking commercials than Sage does skipping to exactly that point.

[Oats]

I had good results with SA .9 but when I rebuilt my machine I installed v1 and the results were pretty bad. It was an early build of v1 and had some other bugs so I just quit using it.

[mkanet]

Yes, this is very much the behavior I see (~90%+ of commercial breaks marked within 1 skip (10s) or so). At least the results are consistent. Yeah, I'm starting to see the value in using this as an aid to reach the right spot verses having to completely guess. I just had to get the idea out of my head of SA being able to detect the real commercial break beginning and respective ending.

I could be wrong, but it seems that most people prefer the latest version of SA for the best detection capability.

Originally Posted by stanger89

So you're getting ~90%+ of commercial breaks marked to within 1 skip (10s) or so?

When I think of inaccuracies it's things like entire commercials (30s+) or entire breaks being missed or large (30s+) chunks of shows being marked and that happens very very rarely in my experience.

Frankly I think for most shows SA does a better job marking commercials than Sage does skipping to exactly that point.

[toricred]

The current version (SAV1) doesn't have the SchoolHouse feature yet, but it is being feverishly worked on. When it comes out there will also be a profile feature allowing you to have different settings for different channels, shows (Law & Order seems to really need it's own set of rules), or several other attributes.

The biggest problem I've been running into lately is that many of the networks in my area are starting to leave the channel logo on after the end of the show all the way into the commercial. Another common problem is when there's no or very few blank frames between show and commercial blocks. That is essentially impossible for SAV1 to detect.

My settings are used on my system for HD-PVR recordings and ATSC mpg recordings. I've been working on more tuning for my system and have changed several of my settings that aren't currently posted, but I'm waiting until I can get a little better consistency before posting new ones. I'm hoping SchoolHouse will be out soon and that will make tuning much easier.