Sage lost shows, now what?

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by gateslinger

What I have noticed with the latest version is that if there are two+ copies of a file anywhere in a designated library or recording area, the imported video playback won't work. I see a folder representation saying "2 instances" but I cannot do anything with the recording from the menu. As soon as I eliminate one, then I can play it or delete it. That to me sounds like a bug from an unintended consequence.

Which "latest version"? That shouldn't be happening in v3; v2.2.8 - yes, it is a bug. Is it still happening in v3?

- Andy

[matterw]

I have to agree with MTuckman on this issue. I have had the WIZ.bin file corrupted at least 6 times to date with all different versions. I am currently on v2.2.8 and not only did the WIZ.bin file get corrupted, but ALL of my recorded shows have been deleted from the storage. So, even if I had the last "good" version of the WIZ.bin it would do me no good!

In this day and age I see no reason why this can't be in a human readable format such as XML. Are there a lot of secrets that SageTV is trying to hide in the WIZ.bin? I don't think so... Just think, if the file is XML you can fix the file, auto-repair based on the existing files that you have already repaired, etc... Moreover, the amount of work for SageTV would be less as well. Why? Because they are using an industry-standard format where there are tons of libraries out there already...

Commercial, hobbiest, whatever the classification of this software, you are hearing that end-users are asking for an enhancement based on their experienece. Why wouldn't you want to take this for free and incorporate it?

[lamanmi]

Ok, I just completed my upgrade to v3.0.7. everything went fine except the problem that it appears gateslinger had. After my upgrade all of my recorded shows are appearing in my imported video files menu (and all the shows that are in the directory specifically listed as video imports). The directories (two are set up) I use for my recorded shows are on different drives and directories than the one I have set up for my video imports.

Any ideas? Should I submit a bug report?

[willgill]

I agree with matterw, why can't WIZ.bin be in XML.

Probably an even better question is why WIZ.bin can't be rebuilt? Making backups of WIZ.bin seems to be a band-aid. Why can't there be an option within Sage or heck an external utility, that you could point to an existing directory or directories and say "Build WIZ.bin"

Could you imagine an OS that couldn't rebuild a file table?

With all that said, I've only had a problem with WIZ.bin once and it was my fault. I did an upgrade without backing up WIZ.bin. I never dreamed Sage couldn't rebuild a file table.

[roofus]

Originally Posted by padre

No software product, none, is ever bug free. Have never found one, doubt I'll ever see one in my lifetime.
<soapbox off>

I do beleive it was not the point that it is buggy, but that he was told to live with it.

Never ever, in my years of working with or on software have I ever been told by a company or been dumb enough to tell a customer "It's buggy, live with it, you have to do this this and this to get it to work right. ect...."

You make a software your customers pay for, it's YOUR job to deal with the bugs, not ours, YOU live with it.

[acrowe]

While I agree that the wiz.bin thing is a pain, BUT I think we all need to remember that this is a USER forum. If you have a feature request or bug then you need to make sure you CONTACT SAGE DIRECTLY by using the links from their page (or Opus/Andy's sig).


That said I'd love to see wiz.bin in xml (or even mysql, but I'm a glutton for punishment too).

[salsbst]

Never ever, in my years of working with or on software have I ever been told by a company or been dumb enough to tell a customer "It's buggy, live with it, you have to do this this and this to get it to work right. ect...."

Has someone from SageTV LLC said this to you?

[TJLeeland]

Originally Posted by roofus

I do beleive it was not the point that it is buggy, but that he was told to live with it.

Never ever, in my years of working with or on software have I ever been told by a company or been dumb enough to tell a customer "It's buggy, live with it, you have to do this this and this to get it to work right. ect...."

You make a software your customers pay for, it's YOUR job to deal with the bugs, not ours, YOU live with it.

Snapstream has the same attitude, with the same "love it or leave it" BS in the forums. So I left. I can do the same with Sage if they develop a attitude of "you paid less than $100, so live with the problems and don't B**ch."

The other attitude that bugs me is that this is somehow beta software. It's not. I have a right to expect a reasonable level of function from my purchase.

And I get the feeling those that take the "you have to live with the problems or buy a Tivo" are doing just that, living with the problem - because they sure aren't living with a girlfriend, wife, or kids.

While I might be willing to put up with some amount of issues, my wife isn't as easy going. And when my Mother-inlaw is visiting, and the TV system dies while we're at work - things get a little stressed vis-a-vis the POS DVR.

If you want your product to be taken seriously, make a good product. If it's beta, don't charge me. Finally, when you have a forum full of people still trying to make your product work, don't start insulting them. This is exactly why I left BTV. There are many players in this game, customer service will decide which are playing on the VCR team or for team Betamax

[pjwerdna]

One way of guarding against wiz.bin corruption suggested earlier was to take backups of it.

I've just discovered that it's important to keep several days worth of backups rather than just yesterdays.

I noticed that Sage was not deleting programs from the schedule that I'd marked as 'dont like'. So I shutdown sage and restarted it.

SageTV then marked my wiz.bin as corrupt as well as it's automatic backup.
No problem thinks I. I have a vbscript that takes backups. Fortunately I had 10 days worth of backups because I had to go back 7 days before I found a wiz.bin that didnt get marked as corrupt as soon as I started Sage.

I've now changed my script to keep 14 days worth of backups.

[blade]

Originally Posted by TJLeeland

The other attitude that bugs me is that this is somehow beta software. It's not. I have a right to expect a reasonable level of function from my purchase.

If you want your product to be taken seriously, make a good product. If it's beta, don't charge me.

v2.2.8 is not beta and I totally agree that anyone using v2.2.8 should expect a solid and finished product.

v3 is still beta. I don't blame anyone for telling someone to suck it up and live with the problem if they're trying out the beta. After all the entire point of a beta release is to find bugs so that they can be fixed before the final release.

[roofus]

Originally Posted by salsbst

Has someone from SageTV LLC said this to you?

No, and my post may have been misleading. It was said by another user, and I did not mean to attack the SageTV staff, or start one for that matter. I was just expressing to that user that things like having to backup wiz.bin should not just be accepted. I apologize if I started a small outrage against the sage staff. My comment...

You make a software your customers pay for, it's YOUR job to deal with the bugs, not ours, YOU live with it.

...was directed to programmers with the love it or leave it attitude, and to anyone from Frey that would take the "backup" defense.

(part of my own outrage with that comment came from some problems I have with our programming staff at work, they're the love it or leave it band-aid on a broken arm type, and as a programmer and someone who used to do it for money, those types of programmers offend me )

By the way, the current stable version creates a wiz.bak file, and you can change the path in the sage.properties file.