Network storage

[Menehune]

I would assume the limiting factor would be the disk I/O.

I know it's not an "apples to apples" comparison but I once played 6 differnet shared video files from my server into different media players over a network. mov, mpg, avi, wmv, rm. According to XP's network task manager window, the 100mb hub was only 20% utilized.

[lotusvball]

They are close to releasing version 2. This will include hardware raid, SATA & USB hardrives.

http://www.serverelements.com/phpBB2...7a4520be1445a4

[popechild]

I'm new to the NAS world, so I'm hoping someone can answer a simple question for me. What's the advantage (particularly for a sage htpc server situation) for a solution like this over just using a windows-based pc as a server? Is it purely a way to not have to use windows, or does it do something more that I'm missing?

ie. If I want to create a server that will store all of my movies, recordings, music, etc. and stream them over my network to my sage machine, can't I just do that with an old pc with windows on it and a few harddrives in it?

I'm sure I'm missing something because everyone seems to love this product, but not being a big network guy, somebody help me understand what I'm missing...

Thanks!

[jchiso]

popechild:

It's all relative. Windows is an expensive and superfluous OS for an application such as this. Also consider the cost of anti-virus software and the numerous updates and periodic reboots that Windows requires.

[jgsouthard]

Originally Posted by popechild

I'm new to the NAT world, so I'm hoping someone can answer a simple question for me. What's the advantage (particularly for a sage htpc server situation) for a solution like this over just using a windows-based pc as a server? Is it purely a way to not have to use windows, or does it do something more that I'm missing?

ie. If I want to create a server that will store all of my movies, recordings, music, etc. and stream them over my network to my sage machine, can't I just do that with an old pc with windows on it and a few harddrives in it?

I'm sure I'm missing something because everyone seems to love this product, but not being a big network guy, somebody help me understand what I'm missing...

Thanks!

For me it's reliability, ease of setup, and ease of maintenance. Avoiding having to pay for Windows is an added bonus, unless you happen to have an extra copy of WinXP or Win2K lying around.

I haven't used network-attached storage for SageTV (yet, plan to soon), but I've used it for general file backup and shared access in a peer-to-peer networking environment. I haven't yet used commercial products such as Infrant ReadyNAS NV and Buffalo Terastation, which are probably the best for reliable redundant (Raid 5) storage. So far, I've just commandeered an old PC and stuck it on the network.

Over the course of the last several years, I've had a shared NAS server on which I have run the following operating systems (in order):

- Windows XP
- Windows 2000
- Linux (Debian), text console mode only
- OpenFiler and FreeNAS (quick experiments only)
- NASLite+

I went from Windows XP to Windows 2000 because I didn't have another Windows XP license to tie up, and I had an extra copy of Win2K lying around. Win2K worked just as well as WinXP for use as a file server. The problem was that it crashed more often than I'd like, to the point that I set up a scheduled routine to reboot it automatically every couple of weeks. It also required a graphical user interface (i.e. monitor or remote access software) to maintain it.

The next iteration was Linux, with Samba for network shared access. It took a while to get it set up (lots of reading and learning), but once I had it going it was rock solid. It ran for a year with only one reboot, and I didn't even need to reboot then (just wanted to make sure I still could, for some weird reason). It also gave me secure terminal access (SSH) and secure FTP access (SFTP) from anywhere on the internet, which I loved. On the other hand, when it came time to add a larger hard drive I realized what a pain it was to reconfigure, since I'm not that strong in Linux. For reliability plus functionality it was the winner, but set up and reconfiguration was a pain for a Linux novice.

So then I experimented with OpenFiler and NASLite+. OpenFiler is a specialized Linux distro based on RedHat Fedora, so it's basically just a streamlined way of getting NAS running on Linux. You still have to know some Linux stuff, but it was somewhat easier to set up and configure for specialized NAS applicatons.

With NASLite+, in 10 minutes I had a file server running with no Linux knowledge, no user intervention, and no maintenance. It just works. If I want to add a drive, in another few minutes it's up and working. I hated to give up the SSH and SFTP access I had with Debian, but NASLite+ was SO easy and SO reliable that I'll never go back to trying to use a full-bore OS for simple NAS.

[popechild]

Wow. Sounds pretty convincing! I guess having never really used a specialized server beyond tying together whatever machines I already needed running for other aps I just never realized how many PITA aspects there are to it.

When I get ready to do my Sage media server, I'll definitely have to give this a look...

[Lucas]

I am getting ready to do the same. My SageTVPC has no space for more Hard Drives (Currently 5). What's more with that many drives it's getting pretty warm and I have to run the fan speeds higher that I would like.

I saw this thread a few days ago and looks like I am going for NASLite+.

I have an old PentiumII 233Mhz(128Mb RAM+CDROM) tower PC which has plenty of space and can easily take 3x300Gb Drives and more. It also runs whisper quiet.

I am thinking of migrating the SageTV Imported Video Library and MP3 files to the NASLite Server and keeping SageTV Recordings on the SageTVPC.

The only concern I have is that its IDE ports are ATA33 which may limit the transfer rate for playing HD files. For SD it should be OK.

Lotusvball and jgsouthard what do you think of this set-up and SageTV?

Should I wait for NASLite+ V2 which supports PCI IDE and SATA cards?

[Hades]

@Lucas

Or give freenas a try (freenas)
It supports many hardware devices straight out of the box,it`s a tad trickier to initially setup over Naslite,but not by much.

The software raid seems to be a tad buggy,so i just bought myself a cheap raid card off ebay.

Current hardware supported on rel 6.0
Release 6.0

[lotusvball]

Originally Posted by Lucas

I am getting ready to do the same. My SageTVPC has no space for more Hard Drives (Currently 5). What's more with that many drives it's getting pretty warm and I have to run the fan speeds higher that I would like.

I saw this thread a few days ago and looks like I am going for NASLite+.

I have an old PentiumII 233Mhz(128Mb RAM+CDROM) tower PC which has plenty of space and can easily take 3x300Gb Drives and more. It also runs whisper quiet.

I am thinking of migrating the SageTV Imported Video Library and MP3 files to the NASLite Server and keeping SageTV Recordings on the SageTVPC.

The only concern I have is that its IDE ports are ATA33 which may limit the transfer rate for playing HD files. For SD it should be OK.

Lotusvball and jgsouthard what do you think of this set-up and SageTV?

Should I wait for NASLite+ V2 which supports PCI IDE and SATA cards?

Currently, that is what I am doing. I found the transfer rate for HD to be spotty. But my entire DVD collection (400 +) and Music collection (1000+) and imported videos are on the NASLite+ usb server. I also have an additional server for backup. Both have been running for about 9 months with no reboot. I even forget that I have them running since they are in the basement. Version 2 will have some nice features (raid support and SATA support). I am going to try to setup an additional server at that time to hold my tv recordings.

[lotusvball]

Originally Posted by Hades

@Lucas

Or give freenas a try (freenas)
It supports many hardware devices straight out of the box,it`s a tad trickier to initially setup over Naslite,but not by much.

The software raid seems to be a tad buggy,so i just bought myself a cheap raid card off ebay.

Current hardware supported on rel 6.0
Release 6.0

I tried freenas and the setup cannot compare to NASLite+. 10 minutes vs 4-5 hours of playing around till I figured everything out. For free freenas is great. But the cost of NASLite+ is not that bad $25.

[jgsouthard]

Originally Posted by Lucas

I am getting ready to do the same. My SageTVPC has no space for more Hard Drives (Currently 5). What's more with that many drives it's getting pretty warm and I have to run the fan speeds higher that I would like.

I saw this thread a few days ago and looks like I am going for NASLite+.

I have an old PentiumII 233Mhz(128Mb RAM+CDROM) tower PC which has plenty of space and can easily take 3x300Gb Drives and more. It also runs whisper quiet.

I am thinking of migrating the SageTV Imported Video Library and MP3 files to the NASLite Server and keeping SageTV Recordings on the SageTVPC.

The only concern I have is that its IDE ports are ATA33 which may limit the transfer rate for playing HD files. For SD it should be OK.

Lotusvball and jgsouthard what do you think of this set-up and SageTV?

Should I wait for NASLite+ V2 which supports PCI IDE and SATA cards?

I haven't investigated transfer rates for video enough to know whether ATA33 would be a problem for you. That might take a little more research. I think you'd be OK unless you were doing multiple simultaneous transfers (say, recording two shows while watching another one), but even then you might start maxing out a 100Mb ethernet line by about the same time that that the drives became the bottleneck.

One nice thing about NASLite, which as far as I can tell is not true of any other NAS software solution I've found: Because it does not boot from the hard drive and instead boots directly from CD or USB (or in the case of the minimal free version, a floppy), it is able to bypass the motherboard BIOS and directly access the hard drives. That means that there are no BIOS limitations on hard drive capacity, and you can run large HDD's even in older PC's that otherwise wouldn't support them.

[Lucas]

Thanks guys for your responses.

Well I will give it a try but I am tempted to wait a couple of weeks to see if V2 comes out first.

As far as back-up goes I currently only backup certain partitions, like the partition holding the MP3 collection and a partition that holds documents etc using Acronis True Image.

Lotusvball,

what do you use to backup the files on the NASLite Server?

[lotusvball]

Originally Posted by Lucas

Thanks guys for your responses.

Well I will give it a try but I am tempted to wait a couple of weeks to see if V2 comes out first.

They have a free update policy. You get something like 5 downloads within a 180 day period. You can start today and update when the new version comes out.

Originally Posted by Lucas

As far as back-up goes I currently only backup certain partitions, like the partition holding the MP3 collection and a partition that holds documents etc using Acronis True Image.

Lotusvball,

what do you use to backup the files on the NASLite Server?

I use a free program call syncback (I think) Easy to setup and has been running for about a year with zero maintanence on my part. I will double check the name when I get home tonight and let you know.

[Lucas]

Thanks for the info.

I just went ahead and bought NASLite+.

Looks like I 've got one more thing to do this weekend.

I'll be moving 3 ATA drives out of the SageTV box and into the NASLite+ Server.
That should reduce noise and temps a bit.

I hope that v2 comes out quick 'cause I need more space.

[Berg]

Originally Posted by Lucas

I'll be moving 3 ATA drives out of the SageTV box and into the NASLite+ Server.
That should reduce noise and temps a bit.

I hope that v2 comes out quick 'cause I need more space.

As a short term fix, I have been using the USB edition with a "kicker floppy" to use the fourth IDE spot for a fourth hard drive. I have this set-up in two
NAS Lite servers running on really old PII machines. That would not boot from USB without the kicker floppy.

Of course, this is not as much fun as version 2 !

[Lucas]

You are using the USB version with a floppy ??????

Wish I knew that!

I chose the CDRom version since my old PII pc can't boot from USB.

[Berg]

Originally Posted by Lucas

You are using the USB version with a floppy ??????

Wish I knew that!

I chose the CDRom version since my old PII pc can't boot from USB.

See this post for links on the topic - http://www.serverelements.com/phpBB2...1675b922076673

Sorry I didn't pipe in earlier ... if I were in your shoes, I would email the guys at Server Elements and ask them if you can change your license. They seem very fair in my dealings with them.

I purchased the Suite which gives you all the products and a license allowing you two instances/servers with the same key. (Once you start ... you can never have enough storage )

Hope that helps.

[Lucas]

Berg, thanks for that.

[sixdoubleo]

Just wondering....

WHy not use Fedora Core or any of the other free Linuxes and do the same thing? While I can understand the need for something like this, for a techie type person, the same exact thing can be done with just plain old Linux and most likely without the performance/stability issues that were reported with one of the products. In addition, Fedora/Slackware/SUSE support all the RAID stuff.

I currently run a 1.5TB backup server running a minimal install of Fedora Core. Been humming along nicely for two years now.

Granted, you need to learn a tiny bit of Linux, but it aint that bad.

Not at all meaning to understate the usefullness of either of these products as there are very slick....but I still think you'll get a better all-around setup by doing this with a more mainstream install of Linux.

[lotusvball]

Originally Posted by sixdoubleo

Just wondering....

WHy not use Fedora Core or any of the other free Linuxes and do the same thing? While I can understand the need for something like this, for a techie type person, the same exact thing can be done with just plain old Linux and most likely without the performance/stability issues that were reported with one of the products. In addition, Fedora/Slackware/SUSE support all the RAID stuff.

I currently run a 1.5TB backup server running a minimal install of Fedora Core. Been humming along nicely for two years now.

Granted, you need to learn a tiny bit of Linux, but it aint that bad.

Not at all meaning to understate the usefullness of either of these products as there are very slick....but I still think you'll get a better all-around setup by doing this with a more mainstream install of Linux.

There are a couple or reasons why.

1st it is really easy to use. Took 10 minutes to do a complete setup.
2nd it fits on a usb drive and allows for the use of 4 ide drives.
3rd did I mention how easy it was. And $25 is worth the time savings.
4th. IT WAS EASY. no learning linux or trying to tinker with the setup. I don't have the time needed to learn the tiny bit of Linux needed.