Hooray SMART errors

[panteragstk]

Well, I decided to get some drive monitoring software since I decided to go with WD Green drives and they're all getting around 3 years old. Well, 4 of them have SMART errors. I'm going to replace them now to avoid issues, but I wonder what type of drive to buy. I'm leaning toward the WD Red drives, but would like some suggestions from you guys.

[Skirge01]

First, I want to give a huge recommendation to HD Sentinel Pro. I'm not sure what kind of algorithms your monitoring software is using or how it lets you know when there's a failure, but I'm a big believer in Sentinel. (Not saying yours isn't equally as good, just throwing it out there for you and others.) It already saved me from losing 3TB of data when a drive was failing.

Second, my drives are currently the 3TB Seagate ST3000DM001 and I've only had one failure, which was due to a bad head and it was replaced under warranty. The failure may not have even been a defect, but I can't say for sure. The other 9 are still going strong.

[BobPhoenix]

I like WD Red's have a 36+TB unRAID server running on them and genuine Hitachi drives in another unRAID server with 29TB.

For recording drives on my SageTV servers I have a mix of WD Black 1 & 2TB models and Seagate ST3000DM001 & ST2000DM001. The Seagate drives replaced some genuine Samsung 1TB drives that were wearing out.

I was hesitant about the Seagates because of bad experiences with 200-500GB models that were dieing on me left an right - but I've had good luck with my 2 & 3TB Seagates - especially the 3TBs.

I also had a 40TB unRAID server with WD 2TB Greens only (EARS and EADS) but I have retired them due to bad drives 6-8 and 12 more that I fried when they reached 60c on a parity check due to a failed cooling fan. Really can't recommend the WD Green drives any more or at least not what NewEgg had in stock 12 months ago anyway.

So you can see I've used quite a few different models. For recording drives I like 7200rpm models. For archive drives I like the WD Red's. If you have your drives on a hardware raid card I would suggest at least WD Reds or even better - Enterprise drives which are designed for hardware raid setups.

Since the access speeds of the 3TB WD Red's are faster than the 1TB and 2TB Blacks I have I may replace them. I just hate to since the Blacks have a 5 year warranty (1-4 years left) and are still in good shape.

[panteragstk]

Thanks guys. I think I'm leaning toward the red drives since that's what they were designed for. I'll check that other software as well. Thanks.

[MattHelm]

I've bought 8 of the 2TB WD RED drives, since they came out, and am very impressed with them. 1 each are on mine and my dad's recorders, 2 are in my "main" machine, and the others are in a NAS I just built. I did have 1 DOA, and used WD's warranty pre-pay system and had a replacement in 2 days. All others are humming along fine, all but 2 are on 24/7.

For streaming/large files, these are VERY fast. Lots of little files slow them down. (I have have them on their own controller on my "main" machine, and get steady 100MB+ on video transfers to/from the other RED)

You MIGHT look at the new SE line drives, if you want a little more speed. They are a lower end version of the RE server servers drives. 7200rpm vs. 5400rpm(greens). If they'd been out sooner, I'd have used them in my "main" machine, instead of the reds. (They are basically 1/2 way between a RED and a RE)

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by Skirge01

First, I want to give a huge recommendation to HD Sentinel Pro. I'm not sure what kind of algorithms your monitoring software is using or how it lets you know when there's a failure, but I'm a big believer in Sentinel. (Not saying yours isn't equally as good, just throwing it out there for you and others.) It already saved me from losing 3TB of data when a drive was failing.

Second, my drives are currently the 3TB Seagate ST3000DM001 and I've only had one failure, which was due to a bad head and it was replaced under warranty. The failure may not have even been a defect, but I can't say for sure. The other 9 are still going strong.

Got the same information from HD Sentinel. I've done a bit of research and people are saying that it is due to the head parking issue the green drives are known for, and that most of the time it isn't an issue. I'll still be replacing them.

[BobPhoenix]

The LCC count is high? In the hundreds of thousands?

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by BobPhoenix

The LCC count is high? In the hundreds of thousands?

Yep. 493143, 429654, 508194, 340020 on the 4 drives showing the errors. All WD green drives. 3 drives aren't able to get any SMART data due to them being eSATA or on an expansion card. It's literally happening on EVERY green drive that is readable.

EDIT: Update. HD sentinel is showing almost perfect health for all drives, even with the LCC count being very high. Interesting.

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by panteragstk

Yep. 493143, 429654, 508194, 340020 on the 4 drives showing the errors. All WD green drives. 3 drives aren't able to get any SMART data due to them being eSATA or on an expansion card. It's literally happening on EVERY green drive that is readable.

That is what I figured. Lots of people turn off or limit the head parking when they see them start to rise. But unless you see >100,000 in weeks to couple of months time frame it really isn't something to be concerned about. If your drives are a year or older and while the LCC counts are high they are still usable. I would however turn off the head parking with WDIDLE3 (YouTube) if you intend to use them 24x7 anywhere.

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by panteragstk

Yep. 493143, 429654, 508194, 340020 on the 4 drives showing the errors. All WD green drives. 3 drives aren't able to get any SMART data due to them being eSATA or on an expansion card. It's literally happening on EVERY green drive that is readable.

EDIT: Update. HD sentinel is showing almost perfect health for all drives, even with the LCC count being very high. Interesting.

Windows programs have a real problem getting smart data through controller cards. I had the same problem with AOC-SAT2-MV8 and AOC-SASLP-MV8 cards. unRAID (Linux) had no problems with same cards. I would turn off the head parking as I mentioned if you want to continue to use them. The high LCC's are not considered really bad until you hit the millions. If I remember correctly it was 2,000,000 someone posted was a limit. But I'm going from memory and there was a dispute if it was a real drive limit and it would stop functioning or just a smart reporting limit. The ones highlight on the wiki entry in red are the ones to look at the most. The others need to be looked at in context. For instance the "UltraDMA CRC Error Count" could just indicate bad cabling and is nothing to worry about if they are not recent.

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by BobPhoenix

That is what I figured. Lots of people turn off or limit the head parking when they see them start to rise. But unless you see >100,000 in weeks to couple of months time frame it really isn't something to be concerned about. If your drives are a year or older and while the LCC counts are high they are still usable. I would however turn off the head parking with WDIDLE3 (YouTube) if you intend to use them 24x7 anywhere.

I'll go ahead and do that. Thanks for the info.

[panteragstk]

What do you guys think about the Seagate 4 tb drives? Good price, but I worry about their quality control.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822178326

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by panteragstk

What do you guys think about the Seagate 4 tb drives? Good price, but I worry about their quality control.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822178326

That is probably the retail packaging of the ST4000DM000. I'm happy with my 3TB ST3000DM001 but I was worried when I first got them. I've heard good things about the ST4000DM000 on unRAID site. But you can of course get lemons with any manufacturer/shipper. I would run it through some exhaustive tests before just adding it to your system. This will get you past the period of time when a drive dies most frequently when first purchased. I use a script that runs on unRAID that tests a drive for several cycles - 4-6 days worth. I would imagine HD Sentinel would have some tests you could run that would work just as well. The idea is to torture test it for several days of continuous access. If it dies - RMA it. If it doesn't it will probably last. The biggest problem I have with Seagate currently is the warranty. Some are only 1 year. The WD Red's have a 3 year warranty which is one reason I like them.

[ThePaladinTech]

I've got 13 of the 3TB reds ... out of them 5 arrived doa or failed within two weeks. I can't recommend them. they have been 'nominated' for new egg award twice that i know of and never won it. newegg recently ran a 'shell shocker" on them, I think they may be distancing themselves from the reds.

[KryptoNyte]

The 2TB WD green drives that I had in my sage machine died - all three of them, within 2 years. I sent them in and WD sent me (3) 3TB green drives back, which I immediately increased the head parking interval (as I recall, disabling head parking altogether was the wrong thing to do).

I purchased the 4TB Seagate in an enclosure on a sale for $150, pulled it out of the enclosure and dropped it into the Sage machine, works great.

This is just the latest Western Digital failures. I'm done with them.

[Skirge01]

Originally Posted by panteragstk

What do you guys think about the Seagate 4 tb drives? Good price, but I worry about their quality control.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822178326

Like I said, I have several 3TB Seagates and I've been quite happy with them. However, I'm pretty sure the 4TB one you're looking at is a 5900rpm drive; not sure if that's an issue for you.

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by Skirge01

Like I said, I have several 3TB Seagates and I've been quite happy with them. However, I'm pretty sure the 4TB one you're looking at is a 5900rpm drive; not sure if that's an issue for you.

Not an issue. It'll be used for storage only so speed won't matter.

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by BobPhoenix

That is probably the retail packaging of the ST4000DM000. I'm happy with my 3TB ST3000DM001 but I was worried when I first got them. I've heard good things about the ST4000DM000 on unRAID site. But you can of course get lemons with any manufacturer/shipper. I would run it through some exhaustive tests before just adding it to your system. This will get you past the period of time when a drive dies most frequently when first purchased. I use a script that runs on unRAID that tests a drive for several cycles - 4-6 days worth. I would imagine HD Sentinel would have some tests you could run that would work just as well. The idea is to torture test it for several days of continuous access. If it dies - RMA it. If it doesn't it will probably last. The biggest problem I have with Seagate currently is the warranty. Some are only 1 year. The WD Red's have a 3 year warranty which is one reason I like them.

Great advice. I'll do just that once I get it. Thanks.

[Skirge01]

With HD Sentinel doing the monitoring duties, I generally run Anvil's Storage Utilities (free) on a new drive 24/7 for a couple of weeks.

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by Skirge01

With HD Sentinel doing the monitoring duties, I generally run Anvil's Storage Utilities (free) on a new drive 24/7 for a couple of weeks.

Awesome. I'll have to make that a practice now that I have these issues. From what I've read here and elsewhere its not a problem yet, but these drives are getting old and need to be replaced anyway so I guess I'll be building my new fileserver.